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Please don’t pay to use a pay toilet

stallman.org

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Re: Please don’t pay to use a pay toilet

#51

Post by XorNot »

adwn wrote: post #38
sambeau wrote: post #8

I'm not sure if this was put here to ridicule Stallman or as a coda to his comments about Skype but this is a simple well-explained argument that I happen to agree with. If local government can't use local taxes to provide shared toilet facilities to stop us all having to defecate in the streets then what are they (and taxes) for? Community toilets (and streets clear of shit & piss) are, in my opinion, a fundamental…

> If local government can't use local taxes to provide shared toilet facilities to stop us all having to defecate in the streets then what are they (and taxes) for? If local government can't use local taxes to provide free food to everyone to stop us all having to starve in the streets then what are they (and taxes) for? Is access to toilets a more fundamental human right than access to food? Edit: Stallman explicitl…

Actually I also definitely believe this. The homeless and hungry should be sheltered by the government and I'll pay the taxes for doing so.

In lieu of that I donate to charity (though finding truly effective homeless charities is tricky).

Re: Please don’t pay to use a pay toilet

#52

Post by [deleted] »

adwn wrote: post #38
sambeau wrote: post #8

I'm not sure if this was put here to ridicule Stallman or as a coda to his comments about Skype but this is a simple well-explained argument that I happen to agree with. If local government can't use local taxes to provide shared toilet facilities to stop us all having to defecate in the streets then what are they (and taxes) for? Community toilets (and streets clear of shit & piss) are, in my opinion, a fundamental…

> If local government can't use local taxes to provide shared toilet facilities to stop us all having to defecate in the streets then what are they (and taxes) for? If local government can't use local taxes to provide free food to everyone to stop us all having to starve in the streets then what are they (and taxes) for? Is access to toilets a more fundamental human right than access to food? Edit: Stallman explicitl…

[deleted]

Re: Please don’t pay to use a pay toilet

#53

Post by informatimago »

mrleiter wrote: post #24
gregwtmtno wrote: post #5

Where I live, we don't have pay toilets, but when I was on vacation last I thought they were great. I was happy to pay a little bit for a clean bathroom instead of having to go at a coffee shop or restaurant. Stallman has a point, but it's easily addressable. The government could give the indigent vouchers to use the pay toilets. I'd even be happy to pay more to use the bathrooms to subsidize such a program.

>The government could give the indigent vouchers to use the pay toilets. Wouldn't work in Europe - Art. 18 TFEU.

Hence BREXIT, and why all EU countries should consider exiting from the EU!

Re: Please don’t pay to use a pay toilet

#54

Post by IanCal »

adwn wrote: post #38
sambeau wrote: post #8

I'm not sure if this was put here to ridicule Stallman or as a coda to his comments about Skype but this is a simple well-explained argument that I happen to agree with. If local government can't use local taxes to provide shared toilet facilities to stop us all having to defecate in the streets then what are they (and taxes) for? Community toilets (and streets clear of shit & piss) are, in my opinion, a fundamental…

> If local government can't use local taxes to provide shared toilet facilities to stop us all having to defecate in the streets then what are they (and taxes) for? If local government can't use local taxes to provide free food to everyone to stop us all having to starve in the streets then what are they (and taxes) for? Is access to toilets a more fundamental human right than access to food? Edit: Stallman explicitl…

Providing food to those who would otherwise starve is an important use of taxes, and often a key part of welfare systems.

Re: Please don’t pay to use a pay toilet

#55

Post by icebraining »

franciscop wrote: post #41
sambeau wrote: post #8

I'm not sure if this was put here to ridicule Stallman or as a coda to his comments about Skype but this is a simple well-explained argument that I happen to agree with. If local government can't use local taxes to provide shared toilet facilities to stop us all having to defecate in the streets then what are they (and taxes) for? Community toilets (and streets clear of shit & piss) are, in my opinion, a fundamental…

Coming from Spain and having lived in Japan, I have come to believe that the US is really far away from what can be considered a civilized society. There's a huge mismatch between the public opinion (best country) and the reality that you can see through smaller things like this. Some of these things are better even in the so-called "third world countries". Note: Spain was named for the smaller things like this ; pub…

Are there public toilets generally in Spain? I don't remember them from my stays in Galicia, Barcelona or Salamanca.

Re: Please don’t pay to use a pay toilet

#56

Post by oneeyedpigeon »

adwn wrote: post #38
sambeau wrote: post #8

I'm not sure if this was put here to ridicule Stallman or as a coda to his comments about Skype but this is a simple well-explained argument that I happen to agree with. If local government can't use local taxes to provide shared toilet facilities to stop us all having to defecate in the streets then what are they (and taxes) for? Community toilets (and streets clear of shit & piss) are, in my opinion, a fundamental…

> If local government can't use local taxes to provide shared toilet facilities to stop us all having to defecate in the streets then what are they (and taxes) for? If local government can't use local taxes to provide free food to everyone to stop us all having to starve in the streets then what are they (and taxes) for? Is access to toilets a more fundamental human right than access to food? Edit: Stallman explicitl…

If you accept that government letting people starve to death is ok, the only thing I have left to point out is that toilets tend to be more of an immediate need.

Re: Please don’t pay to use a pay toilet

#57

Post by Normal_gaussian »

fiatjaf wrote: post #30

So you can pay for toilets, but you choose to use free toilets. You're making these free toilets worse by your usage and creating incentive for them to become paid, only making things worse for those who cannot pay.

That initially sounds like it makes sense, but in reality it doesn't.

For any bathroom facility there is already a relatively fixed regular cost being applied to maintain them. As free bathrooms are nearly always funded by community purses their existence is justified by usage, whereas paid bathrooms are nearly always funded by commercial entities which justify their existence with profit.

Re: Please don’t pay to use a pay toilet

#58

Post by manarth »

adwn wrote: post #38
sambeau wrote: post #8

I'm not sure if this was put here to ridicule Stallman or as a coda to his comments about Skype but this is a simple well-explained argument that I happen to agree with. If local government can't use local taxes to provide shared toilet facilities to stop us all having to defecate in the streets then what are they (and taxes) for? Community toilets (and streets clear of shit & piss) are, in my opinion, a fundamental…

> If local government can't use local taxes to provide shared toilet facilities to stop us all having to defecate in the streets then what are they (and taxes) for? If local government can't use local taxes to provide free food to everyone to stop us all having to starve in the streets then what are they (and taxes) for? Is access to toilets a more fundamental human right than access to food? Edit: Stallman explicitl…

That's the point of welfare programmes: to provide the basic life-sustaining means to those who don't have them. Food, housing, warmth, and sanitation.

So yes, many societies do use taxes to provide free food (or food-stamps, or a welfare cheque) to those in need, to stop us having to starve in the streets.

Re: Please don’t pay to use a pay toilet

#59

Post by doppp »

franciscop wrote: post #41
sambeau wrote: post #8

I'm not sure if this was put here to ridicule Stallman or as a coda to his comments about Skype but this is a simple well-explained argument that I happen to agree with. If local government can't use local taxes to provide shared toilet facilities to stop us all having to defecate in the streets then what are they (and taxes) for? Community toilets (and streets clear of shit & piss) are, in my opinion, a fundamental…

Coming from Spain and having lived in Japan, I have come to believe that the US is really far away from what can be considered a civilized society. There's a huge mismatch between the public opinion (best country) and the reality that you can see through smaller things like this. Some of these things are better even in the so-called "third world countries". Note: Spain was named for the smaller things like this ; pub…

First World != Civilized

Re: Please don’t pay to use a pay toilet

#60

Post by WJW »

Tharkun wrote: post #35

I understand why toilets aren't free. Free public toilets in urban areas are almost invariably dens of filth and crime. Unfortunately, pay toilets are invariably filthy themselves. It boggles the mind that rich "western" countries aren't able to keep public infrastructre clean and free.

Luckily, there is a startup "disrupting" the toilet experience! Feast your eyes on (2theloo)http://www.2theloo.com/].

The name is also a pun on a slang phrase for "see you later!" in Dutch.

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