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Diesel cars produce more toxic emissions than trucks and buses, EU study says

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Re: Diesel cars produce more toxic emissions than trucks and buses, EU study says

#61

Does this explain why European cities smell the way they do? It makes me feel a bit sick after a while

Yeah, even though they might produce less CO2, they do put out a ton of NOx and particulates. They can be mitigated to some extent, but the good systems are expensive and EU regulations on NOx are not as high as in California. And most cars sold in the US are built to CA specs because they are the largest market.

Re: Diesel cars produce more toxic emissions than trucks and buses, EU study says

#62
post #17

Article doesn't mention DPF(Diesel Particulate Filter) removal. Many owners don't wanna pay for new one, so they pay for removal. There are so many cars without it and emissions are completely sick.

Same applies to petrol cars, many don't replace the catalytic converter they just remove it. Don't want to get in a argumentation which one is "cleaner" afterwards, both are equally stupid.

> Same applies to petrol cars, many don't replace the catalytic converter they just remove it.

Can you get away with this long-term in most of the EU? In most (or all?) US states, you have to have some sort of historic vehicle or something to get it registered without a catalytic converter.

Re: Diesel cars produce more toxic emissions than trucks and buses, EU study says

#63
post #54

One of the reasons, I am not proud to be a German, since it was/is my government (shame on them all!) that actively prevents real progress in the area of emission reduction of cars. Reality is, that ADAC or TÜV years ago already warned, that EURO 6 cars may produce even more emissions than EURO 5 cars. So, decades of EU environment politics where just Potemkin villages to please German car producers.

The car maker lobby VDA even says today that stricter emission standards are not needed. Btw, the chairman of the VDA is Matthias Wissmann, wo used to be the German transport minister.

The sad truth is, that we would not need stricter standards, if the current standards would be met in reality -- that would be much better than another EURO 7 or 8.

The other sad thing is, that the praised German car manufacturers are about to loose against new comers from the US and China. Good for the environment and the health of the people of course .... but how said Gorbatschow: "Who comes to late ..."

But that is the trouble: Our ministers all have their fallback positions in the industry. Just have a look at the former Schroeder government and what happened to those people.

Re: Diesel cars produce more toxic emissions than trucks and buses, EU study says

#64
As I've cycled around Cambridge, UK for the last 17 years, I've noticed now diesel cars that seemed OK when new (ie no noticeable soot or smell from the exhaust) become problematic about half way through their life - presumably due to wear or poor maintenance.

Are there any studies of emissions from vehicles in the second half of their useful life? Let's say the average car in the UK will have done about 120,000 miles by the time is it scrapped. I want to know what typical cars are like in the 60 to 120 thousand mile range of their life. I guess this is the dominant source of pollution on UK roads. If so, there'd be a case for more thorough testing of emissions in the MOT.

Re: Diesel cars produce more toxic emissions than trucks and buses, EU study says

#65

I'm in Northern Ireland, and while I can't speak for the rest of the UK or Europe, I know the stats put diesel vehicles at almost half in Europe as a whole. It sounds absurd, but I can see the increase in Diesel soot on the roads and pavements here, and more often than not, it can be smelt from passing traffic. To be fair, that I've become more aware of it is making me notice it more - but I live now not so far from…

I live in London, and really noticed the effects of diesel exhaust (particularly buses along busy roads) on my breathing in the past couple years. I've lived here for over 8 years. It's the NoX that I notice much more than the soot. I get breathing difficulties after walking past buses (the sharp smell of the NoX fumes is pretty noticeable). I've had bronchitis twice in the past two years. I've even started changing…

People seem to block out the smell and just not notice, when they do it becomes obvious. Maybe a campaign of warning signs would help. Target areas with high pollution with "Danger" signs that outline the risks.

Re: Diesel cars produce more toxic emissions than trucks and buses, EU study says

#66

As I've cycled around Cambridge, UK for the last 17 years, I've noticed now diesel cars that seemed OK when new (ie no noticeable soot or smell from the exhaust) become problematic about half way through their life - presumably due to wear or poor maintenance. Are there any studies of emissions from vehicles in the second half of their useful life? Let's say the average car in the UK will have done about 120,000 mile…

Here in California I find the emissions testing bizarre. Instead of actually measuring the emissions, they just plug a computer into the OBD port and use whatever the car itself reports!

Re: Diesel cars produce more toxic emissions than trucks and buses, EU study says

#67

As I've cycled around Cambridge, UK for the last 17 years, I've noticed now diesel cars that seemed OK when new (ie no noticeable soot or smell from the exhaust) become problematic about half way through their life - presumably due to wear or poor maintenance. Are there any studies of emissions from vehicles in the second half of their useful life? Let's say the average car in the UK will have done about 120,000 mile…

Here in California I find the emissions testing bizarre. Instead of actually measuring the emissions, they just plug a computer into the OBD port and use whatever the car itself reports!

Which circles back to where VW Dieselgate was a fucking disaster and a lot of people at a lot of levels of government on multiple continents are just as at fault as VW is.

First rule of computer security: do not trust humans.

First rule of not trusting humans: computers lie when ordered to by computers, and cannot be trusted, and results should be checked as often and as completely as possible.

Re: Diesel cars produce more toxic emissions than trucks and buses, EU study says

#69
post #3

Part of the problem is that basically the closer you run the diesel engine to its optimum mpg-wise, the more NOx it emits. So, when you are trying very hard to make engines more efficient to get impressive mpg numbers, you also end up generating more NOx (Which you can then get rid of using urea, which I think is the preferred option in trucks and buses - think AdBlue or whatever it is called when used for cars.

One problem with AdBlue is that the car makers decided that the car owners were not supposed to refill it, it was considered more like an oil change than a fill-up. So the tank needs to be large enough to cover a full maintenance interval - which either requires quite a large tank or creative solution to limit consumption. And - meh - the decision was made to limit consumption.

I think it was more that they didn't want customers to have to fill it, as it's just one more annoying maintenance item to take care of it.

I've never seen any warning or notice stating that it should not be filled by owners. I have a diesel VW and refilling the tank is pretty easy. The dealer didn't have any qualms selling it to me.

Re: Diesel cars produce more toxic emissions than trucks and buses, EU study says

#70
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just another step to the complete infantilization of citizens by the government. If you can't pour a liquid into another container, you have no business being outdoors.

On the other hand, when strapped for cash, many citizens will stop doing it. You can make it illegal to drive with that tank empty, but that still won't make many citizens do it. The environment is better off this way.

That one is simple, just make the vehicle not run when certain conditions aren't met. Most diesel trucks already do this from the factory, if you don't follow the regen. cycle the truck just turns off.
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