Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Diesel cars produce more toxic emissions than trucks and buses, EU study says

theverge.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 119 posts

Re: Diesel cars produce more toxic emissions than trucks and buses, EU study says

#11

Post by raverbashing »

PythonicAlpha wrote: post #5
lb1lf wrote: post #3

Part of the problem is that basically the closer you run the diesel engine to its optimum mpg-wise, the more NOx it emits. So, when you are trying very hard to make engines more efficient to get impressive mpg numbers, you also end up generating more NOx (Which you can then get rid of using urea, which I think is the preferred option in trucks and buses - think AdBlue or whatever it is called when used for cars.

The other part is, that producing cleaner Diesel cars is just more costly -- that was the main reason for VW to cheat.

Not really

However it does consume more AdBlue and/or produces less power the cleaner it is

They did it to sell a "better car" with disregard to pollution regulation

Re: Diesel cars produce more toxic emissions than trucks and buses, EU study says

#12

Post by headmelted »

I'm in Northern Ireland, and while I can't speak for the rest of the UK or Europe, I know the stats put diesel vehicles at almost half in Europe as a whole.

It sounds absurd, but I can see the increase in Diesel soot on the roads and pavements here, and more often than not, it can be smelt from passing traffic.

To be fair, that I've become more aware of it is making me notice it more - but I live now not so far from where I grew up and it's clear how much difference the last 10-15 years have made to the state of the local environment. It's disgusting, and no doubt a massive public health crisis 10-20 years from now in the UK, where we already lead the world in lung disease.

Re: Diesel cars produce more toxic emissions than trucks and buses, EU study says

#15

Post by sllabres »

lb1lf wrote: post #8
sllabres wrote: post #7

Have a look at cargo ship emissions and then think.

Which is why lots of very smart people spend lots of money figuring out better ways to power commercial shipping; gas turbines for instance - and even sails may make a comeback. The problem with cars (in particular diesel ones) is that their pollution causes problems locally, too. That is less of an immediate concern if you're plying the Yokohama-US Pacific coast route.

I don't negate that this is the case but bunker and "gas turbines" seems a bit on the opposite for fossile energy regarding the environment.

And this fuel does not seem to loose attraction due to its price. "Worldwide bunker use in 2001 was estimated at 278 million tons, of which around 212 million tons were residual fuels. ƒ Between 2001 and 2020, total consumption grows at an average annual rate of 3.1% [...]" [1]

[1] https://nepis.epa.gov/Exe/ZyPDF.cgi/P1001TZU.PDF?Dockey=P100...

Re: Diesel cars produce more toxic emissions than trucks and buses, EU study says

#17

Post by gbil »

milansuk wrote: post #14

Article doesn't mention DPF(Diesel Particulate Filter) removal. Many owners don't wanna pay for new one, so they pay for removal. There are so many cars without it and emissions are completely sick.

Same applies to petrol cars, many don't replace the catalytic converter they just remove it. Don't want to get in a argumentation which one is "cleaner" afterwards, both are equally stupid.

Re: Diesel cars produce more toxic emissions than trucks and buses, EU study says

#18

Post by lb1lf »

sllabres wrote: post #15
lb1lf wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is why lots of very smart people spend lots of money figuring out better ways to power commercial shipping; gas turbines for instance - and even sails may make a comeback. The problem with cars (in particular diesel ones) is that their pollution causes problems locally, too. That is less of an immediate concern if you're plying the Yokohama-US Pacific coast route.

I don't negate that this is the case but bunker and "gas turbines" seems a bit on the opposite for fossile energy regarding the environment. And this fuel does not seem to loose attraction due to its price. "Worldwide bunker use in 2001 was estimated at 278 million tons, of which around 212 million tons were residual fuels. ƒ Between 2001 and 2020, total consumption grows at an average annual rate of 3.1% [...]" [1]…

I (partially) agree; however, we have a saying in Norway that "The best is the worst enemy of the good."

In a perfect world, shipping would be emissions-free; however, it is not; the vast majority of the world's commercial shipping runs off heavy fuel oil.

Getting it to pollute less in the short term is IMHO better than holding out, waiting for zero emissions somewhere down the line.

Re: Diesel cars produce more toxic emissions than trucks and buses, EU study says

#19

Post by Xylakant »

lb1lf wrote: post #3

Part of the problem is that basically the closer you run the diesel engine to its optimum mpg-wise, the more NOx it emits. So, when you are trying very hard to make engines more efficient to get impressive mpg numbers, you also end up generating more NOx (Which you can then get rid of using urea, which I think is the preferred option in trucks and buses - think AdBlue or whatever it is called when used for cars.

One problem with AdBlue is that the car makers decided that the car owners were not supposed to refill it, it was considered more like an oil change than a fill-up. So the tank needs to be large enough to cover a full maintenance interval - which either requires quite a large tank or creative solution to limit consumption. And - meh - the decision was made to limit consumption.

Re: Diesel cars produce more toxic emissions than trucks and buses, EU study says

#20

Post by Timethy »

dovdovdov wrote: post #9

But, they have all those blue and green emblems on the back. :/ When I see these cars getting floored and I see the dark grey/black smoke coming out I often wonder, this must be super healthy for all of us.

YouTube for Rolling Coal
Post reply on HN