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Diesel cars produce more toxic emissions than trucks and buses, EU study says

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Re: Diesel cars produce more toxic emissions than trucks and buses, EU study says

#51

Here's a good article on how diesel engines became popular in Europe and not in the US https://longtailpipe.com/2015/10/02/differences-in-us-and-eu...

Very interesting. I'm often under the impression that the EU has stricter standards than the USA. But in this case not at all, it's even somehow unethical (to me at least) that the laws were made as economic incentives over health.

Re: Diesel cars produce more toxic emissions than trucks and buses, EU study says

#52
This could really the death blow for the Diesel engine in cars. Over a decade people have promoted the Diesel as a cleaner, more efficient fuel for cars and car makers spent billions to improve the engines and apparently even more in marketing.

Now, the bubble collapsed.

Also, Germany currently gives Diesel owners a rebate on the fuel tax. That is why a liter of Diesel is around €1.10 and a liter of gas is around €1.30. I wouldn't be surprised if this rebate will be gone soon. (But I wouldn't take bets on when)

Re: Diesel cars produce more toxic emissions than trucks and buses, EU study says

#53
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's made worse by the fact that manufacturers don't offer, or offer worse petrol engines in the UK, pushing buyers towards diesel. For the past 10 years, you couldn't buy a petrol Land Rover in the UK, despite the fact that petrol land rovers are assembled in the Sollihul plant. The Latest Discovery 5 finally has a petrol option, but the Discovery Sport is still only offered with a diesel, despite the fact that the…

It could be a market perception thing in the UK. "Diesel 4x4s are the best" and petrol versions just don't sell enough to warrant releasing them in the UK.

But then it's a self fulfilling prophecy,no? You can't buy a petrol 4x4 = petrol 4x4s don't sell = manufacturers don't release them in UK = you can't buy a petrol 4x4.

Re: Diesel cars produce more toxic emissions than trucks and buses, EU study says

#54

One of the reasons, I am not proud to be a German, since it was/is my government (shame on them all!) that actively prevents real progress in the area of emission reduction of cars. Reality is, that ADAC or TÜV years ago already warned, that EURO 6 cars may produce even more emissions than EURO 5 cars. So, decades of EU environment politics where just Potemkin villages to please German car producers.

The car maker lobby VDA even says today that stricter emission standards are not needed. Btw, the chairman of the VDA is Matthias Wissmann, wo used to be the German transport minister.

Re: Diesel cars produce more toxic emissions than trucks and buses, EU study says

#55
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think - mind, think - that car makers may be innocent in this particular instance; I am pretty sure I read some time ago (Just as Dieselgate blew up) that regulations required AdBlue to be refilled primarily by workshops - this as it directly affected the emissions of the vehicle, and as such shouldn't (couldn't?) be entrusted to Joe Q. Public to do. However, at least around here they sell it at (some) gas stations…

Just another step to the complete infantilization of citizens by the government. If you can't pour a liquid into another container, you have no business being outdoors.

On the other hand, when strapped for cash, many citizens will stop doing it. You can make it illegal to drive with that tank empty, but that still won't make many citizens do it. The environment is better off this way.

Re: Diesel cars produce more toxic emissions than trucks and buses, EU study says

#56
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same applies to petrol cars, many don't replace the catalytic converter they just remove it. Don't want to get in a argumentation which one is "cleaner" afterwards, both are equally stupid.

I wouldn’t expect a catalytic converter to go bad during the lifetime of any car made in the last 10 years or so. That’s right around the time when manufactures started using wideband o2 sensors, which should help prevent one of the more common failure modes (clogging). It can still happen if there are other issues such as a malfunctioning ignition system though (which could allow unburnt fuel to ignite inside the ca…

"There are some people who manage to remove the catalytic converter and still pass inspection by simulating the signals from the secondary o2 sensor"

Not if the inspection station ignores the ODBII/III tests and does a direct tailpipe test. They'll get caught pretty quickly. Some stations can do that, too. They think ODB is lying, they'll sniff your exhaust.

Re: Diesel cars produce more toxic emissions than trucks and buses, EU study says

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really However it does consume more AdBlue and/or produces less power the cleaner it is They did it to sell a "better car" with disregard to pollution regulation

> However it does consume more AdBlue and/or produces less power the cleaner it is This is why it's more costly. In order to design a diesel car that meets the exact same specifications, they either need to add an entire urea system (costs more money to manufacture, plus ongoing AdBlue costs to the consumer) or add a larger less efficient engine to meet the same performance target (costs more money to manufacture, pl…

Thanks for the clarification

Re: Diesel cars produce more toxic emissions than trucks and buses, EU study says

#58
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just another step to the complete infantilization of citizens by the government. If you can't pour a liquid into another container, you have no business being outdoors.

On the other hand, when strapped for cash, many citizens will stop doing it. You can make it illegal to drive with that tank empty, but that still won't make many citizens do it. The environment is better off this way.

Perhaps they could mandate another additive to diesel that gives it a very apparent coloured plume in its exhaust; and then another additive to AdBlue that oxidizes/reduces that additive. Then you just tell police to pull over anyone with black fumes coming from their cars.

Re: Diesel cars produce more toxic emissions than trucks and buses, EU study says

#60

Here's a good article on how diesel engines became popular in Europe and not in the US https://longtailpipe.com/2015/10/02/differences-in-us-and-eu...

You can't buy what isn't on sale.

In Europe most cars have been available in diesel or petrol versions for decades, and it's very rare to find somewhere that sells petrol but not diesel - not so much in the US, where other than in big rigs etc. diesel was only really found/available in pickups until recently, and diesel pumps can be rare.

The big appeal of diesel in Europe with their higher fuel costs is the better MPG - gas is cheap in the US so there isn't as much demand for vehicles with higher MPG

Other manufacturers 'pass' US diesel emissions, so it isn't impossible to comply with the laws

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