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Diesel cars produce more toxic emissions than trucks and buses, EU study says

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Re: Diesel cars produce more toxic emissions than trucks and buses, EU study says

#41

Post by gambiting »

headmelted wrote: post #12

I'm in Northern Ireland, and while I can't speak for the rest of the UK or Europe, I know the stats put diesel vehicles at almost half in Europe as a whole. It sounds absurd, but I can see the increase in Diesel soot on the roads and pavements here, and more often than not, it can be smelt from passing traffic. To be fair, that I've become more aware of it is making me notice it more - but I live now not so far from…

It's made worse by the fact that manufacturers don't offer, or offer worse petrol engines in the UK, pushing buyers towards diesel. For the past 10 years, you couldn't buy a petrol Land Rover in the UK, despite the fact that petrol land rovers are assembled in the Sollihul plant. The Latest Discovery 5 finally has a petrol option, but the Discovery Sport is still only offered with a diesel, despite the fact that the rest of the continent enjoys an excellent Si4 Petrol engine in the same vehicle.

It's the same story elsewhere - MB offers probably half of the engines that rest of Europe gets, if there is a petrol option it is hugely underpowered, and diesel is the only way to go.

Re: Diesel cars produce more toxic emissions than trucks and buses, EU study says

#42

Post by mikeash »

hydrogen18 wrote: post #27
lb1lf wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think - mind, think - that car makers may be innocent in this particular instance; I am pretty sure I read some time ago (Just as Dieselgate blew up) that regulations required AdBlue to be refilled primarily by workshops - this as it directly affected the emissions of the vehicle, and as such shouldn't (couldn't?) be entrusted to Joe Q. Public to do. However, at least around here they sell it at (some) gas stations…

Just another step to the complete infantilization of citizens by the government. If you can't pour a liquid into another container, you have no business being outdoors.

I will note that about 13 million Americans already live in states where it's illegal to pump your own gasoline.

Re: Diesel cars produce more toxic emissions than trucks and buses, EU study says

#44

Post by Unklejoe »

gbil wrote: post #17
milansuk wrote: post #14

Article doesn't mention DPF(Diesel Particulate Filter) removal. Many owners don't wanna pay for new one, so they pay for removal. There are so many cars without it and emissions are completely sick.

Same applies to petrol cars, many don't replace the catalytic converter they just remove it. Don't want to get in a argumentation which one is "cleaner" afterwards, both are equally stupid.

I wouldn’t expect a catalytic converter to go bad during the lifetime of any car made in the last 10 years or so. That’s right around the time when manufactures started using wideband o2 sensors, which should help prevent one of the more common failure modes (clogging).

It can still happen if there are other issues such as a malfunctioning ignition system though (which could allow unburnt fuel to ignite inside the catalytic converter and cause it to overheat). This is why the check engine light actually flashes when the ECU detects a multi cylinder misfire (to signal a condition which could damage the converter).

Another note: Any car since the mid 90’s will throw a check engine light if you simply remove the catalytic converter. This will cause it to fail inspection in most states of the USA, which ultimately results in the car being legally un-drivable.

There are some people who manage to remove the catalytic converter and still pass inspection by simulating the signals from the secondary o2 sensors (or directly modifying the ECU), but this is a pretty rare practice and is usually limited to the “performance enthusiast” community. You can easily smell when a car has no converters, and it’s a pretty serious fine if you get caught.

Re: Diesel cars produce more toxic emissions than trucks and buses, EU study says

#45

Post by awjr »

gambiting wrote: post #41
headmelted wrote: post #12

I'm in Northern Ireland, and while I can't speak for the rest of the UK or Europe, I know the stats put diesel vehicles at almost half in Europe as a whole. It sounds absurd, but I can see the increase in Diesel soot on the roads and pavements here, and more often than not, it can be smelt from passing traffic. To be fair, that I've become more aware of it is making me notice it more - but I live now not so far from…

It's made worse by the fact that manufacturers don't offer, or offer worse petrol engines in the UK, pushing buyers towards diesel. For the past 10 years, you couldn't buy a petrol Land Rover in the UK, despite the fact that petrol land rovers are assembled in the Sollihul plant. The Latest Discovery 5 finally has a petrol option, but the Discovery Sport is still only offered with a diesel, despite the fact that the…

It could be a market perception thing in the UK. "Diesel 4x4s are the best" and petrol versions just don't sell enough to warrant releasing them in the UK.

Re: Diesel cars produce more toxic emissions than trucks and buses, EU study says

#47

Post by Symbiote »

gsnedders wrote: post #29
milansuk wrote: post #14

Article doesn't mention DPF(Diesel Particulate Filter) removal. Many owners don't wanna pay for new one, so they pay for removal. There are so many cars without it and emissions are completely sick.

The UK at least requires presence of a DPF for the MOT test (i.e., test of roadworthiness, legally required to be done annually from a car's third anniversary of manufacture), and to have it missing (if it was fitted when new) is an instant failure. I'd be somewhat surprised if such things weren't relatively commonly part of roadworthiness tests, but I don't have time to look at quite what all EU states require.

Only last month, an advert offering to remove the filter was banned [1]:

'The advert said: “The only MOT regulation regarding the DPF is a simple visual inspection. As long as the DPF still appears to be fitted, the vehicle will pass the MOT visual inspection. Therefore we only remove the internal core, leaving the outer casing in place. The vehicle will appear to have a DPF fitted and will appear unmodified.”'

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/dec/14/asa-bans...

Re: Diesel cars produce more toxic emissions than trucks and buses, EU study says

#48

Post by CydeWeys »

raverbashing wrote: post #11
PythonicAlpha wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other part is, that producing cleaner Diesel cars is just more costly -- that was the main reason for VW to cheat.

Not really However it does consume more AdBlue and/or produces less power the cleaner it is They did it to sell a "better car" with disregard to pollution regulation

> However it does consume more AdBlue and/or produces less power the cleaner it is

This is why it's more costly. In order to design a diesel car that meets the exact same specifications, they either need to add an entire urea system (costs more money to manufacture, plus ongoing AdBlue costs to the consumer) or add a larger less efficient engine to meet the same performance target (costs more money to manufacture, plus ongoing higher petrol costs to the consumer).

Making a non-polluting diesel car is certainly more costly than making an equivalent diesel car that you don't care about pollution on at all. You're adding a big engineering constraint, of course it gets more costly!

I should add that I'm all in favor of cutting down pollution, and that if diesel as a technology turns out to not be that practical anymore for small cars, then so be it. Eventually they should all be zero emissions anyway.

Re: Diesel cars produce more toxic emissions than trucks and buses, EU study says

#50

Post by ygra »

sllabres wrote: post #16
raverbashing wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, they don't run on Diesel, but something heavier

Yes. Heavy Fuel Oil

Which is basically like asphalt ;) (and requires to be heated by steam to even be pumped to the engines)
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