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The Reality of Developer Burnout

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Re: The Reality of Developer Burnout

#151

Post by dwaltrip »

debt wrote: post #143
aaronscott wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've experienced this first hand. It's a surreal feeling, because you know that objectively everything is awesome, but emotionally you want to throw it all away. I have also experienced burn out with a job that I disliked. In both cases there is a feeling of not being able to focus on the work at hand, that more effort will make you physically sick. The author's example of eating ice cream at every meal resonates wit…

"conceptually amazing" doesn't mean you love your job. means it's great as an idea on paper maybe.

Have you ever spent too much time in a row with a best friend? You don't suddenly hate them, you just need a break. The same thing can easily happen with a job that you enjoy.

Re: The Reality of Developer Burnout

#152

Post by edblarney »

alexmingoia wrote: post #20

I speculate that burnout is more psychological than physical. Ultimately, I think it stems from the shame arising out of the realization that giving 110% instead of 70% at your job accomplishes little but making things harder for yourself. A software engineer doesn't get more money giving 110%, and if they work to finish something quicker they're just rewarded with more work. Often engineers (being human) will want t…

It's a mental thing that I believe has real physical side-effects.

Re: The Reality of Developer Burnout

#153

Post by jk4930 »

dnautics wrote: post #44
alexmingoia wrote: post #20

I speculate that burnout is more psychological than physical. Ultimately, I think it stems from the shame arising out of the realization that giving 110% instead of 70% at your job accomplishes little but making things harder for yourself. A software engineer doesn't get more money giving 110%, and if they work to finish something quicker they're just rewarded with more work. Often engineers (being human) will want t…

You're right, but it's not shame. It's just a raw reinforcement feedback cycle. If you repeatedly put a lot of effort into things that fail (or fail to achieve an expected reward - monetary, status, etc...), and then you train your brain to associate labor with failure, so it creates a mechanism to avoid labor. It's why scientists burn out regularly. 9/10 experiments fail - and that's for a highly skilled scientist.

When scientists burn out, that has probably more to do with the continuous grant hunting, bureaucratic nonsense, and backstabbing they're exposed to.

When PhD students or postdocs burn out, it's because of underpaid boredom, lack of communication about their research or job uncertainties, and a generally ungrateful and passionless environment.

I've never seen scientists burn out over failed experiments. They know upfront that (basic) research is hard and that 90% of their stuff is not working.

Re: The Reality of Developer Burnout

#154

Post by edblarney »

matmo wrote: post #7

The worst part for me was going from being a "rockstar developer" on the team to having to explain why I suddenly can't meet the overly ambitious deadlines handed down from above due to anxiety, depression, panic attacks and extreme insomnia.

Wait till you hit 35 and you have an actual life and you can absolutely still jump through flaming hoops but you just don't care as much. It's one thing to 'step back a little' - it's another thing to have people who've been coding for for only 18 months, but willing to work 14-hour days and lick the testes of the bosses move into 'status' position, because in the most short-sighted version of a project, they can actually developed something resembling code a little bit faster.

Sorry for the crude metaphor. :)

One option is to find an enclave that is not a fast-paced startup.

Do you know how many big dumb companies out there are starving for actual talent? A lot! If you don't mind working with mediocre people and moving slowly, you can find a job in 'not hot' industries where the pace is not so fast. You might feel a little numb though :)

Re: The Reality of Developer Burnout

#155

Post by Terr_ »

Huh? This sound more like social media burnout than developer burnout.

I expected something more like maintaining a big ball of mud or dealing with unrealistic expectations or struggling against the inertia of a large company.

Re: The Reality of Developer Burnout

#156

Post by wapz »

zoeysaurusrex wrote: post #6

> Not only that, but I found myself censoring my own private thought processes, in the silent comfort of my own home, because of the public opinion of people I follow on Twitter. I deleted my Twitter account because of this. I realized it was an empty echo chamber of inaction. If anything you say can be interpreted in a way that the hivemind can destroy you over, they will do it, even with incomplete information and…

Can anyone suggest one or two good podcasts? (I'm particularly interested in programming-specific but any good tech podcasts would do fine)

Re: The Reality of Developer Burnout

#157

Post by lacampbell »

mikekchar wrote: post #150
lacampbell wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've enjoyed arguing (debating?) who with people about OO and FP here. I don't get the downvoting backlash despite going a bit against current fashions (I still like objects and think they make a great foundation for computing in general). The only time I get heavily downvoted for being critical is when I mention a certain programming language - which I happen to like.

The only time I've ever been heavily down voted here is when I've been blatantly wrong (although it sometimes takes me a while to figure out what was wrong about what I said). I often enjoy your posts, which I find quite insightful at times. I was actually surprised that you found yourself downvoted, so I had a quick peek. In reviewing the posts which appear to have been downvoted recently I have to say that they see…

I think some places and people have a very low tolerance for bluntness. I have quite a high tolerance for it. I actually tone myself down here a lot (partly due to the fact that this is my real name). I enjoy opinionated and provocative communication that others just can't stomach. For example I find the 'rants' of Linus Torvalds completely inoffensive, even when I disagree with them. Colour and passion is a good thing and there's no reason to get too upset about our different preferences in pushing bits around, or shy away from strong language. I guess this doesn't sit well with this new breed of progressive programmer with their codes of conduct and all the rest of it. Oh well.

I often enjoy your posts, which I find quite insightful at times.

Thanks - I try.

Re: The Reality of Developer Burnout

#159

Post by divbit »

edblarney wrote: post #154
matmo wrote: post #7

The worst part for me was going from being a "rockstar developer" on the team to having to explain why I suddenly can't meet the overly ambitious deadlines handed down from above due to anxiety, depression, panic attacks and extreme insomnia.

Wait till you hit 35 and you have an actual life and you can absolutely still jump through flaming hoops but you just don't care as much. It's one thing to 'step back a little' - it's another thing to have people who've been coding for for only 18 months, but willing to work 14-hour days and lick the testes of the bosses move into 'status' position, because in the most short-sighted version of a project, they can act…

>You might feel a little numb though :)

Isn't that exactly what hobbies and fun side projects are for though?

Re: The Reality of Developer Burnout

#160

Post by varjag »

purephase wrote: post #147
varjag wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hilariously I'm that person who was forced to dig ditches a few times and experienced a mild case of burnout as developer. In both cases the performance was similar. With earthworks I simply didn't give a damn about the job, so just pecked the ground unenthusiastically. With burnout it was as if petard went off, but instead of earbuzz you get numb to planning, focusing and executing. I actually felt bad about it, but…

I don't think you understand the previous comment. Often, with burnout, motivation is not necessarily the issue. You try, or believe that you're trying, your absolute best but everything is falling down around you. It's not just about motivation, it is just that your perceived ability to execute (going through the motions) and actual ability are completely at odds and you eventually lose all confidence in yourself to…

Perhaps every case is different, but I hardly can imagine how one can remain motivated in a burnt out condition. It's not like the lack of motivation is the cause here. It's more like the lasting effect that holds your capabilities down.

E.g. I still could read the assignment, understand the problem, even estimate how long it could take the former me to complete. Then continue wasting time in front of the screen, sometimes dabbing here or there, at 1/20th or so of normal work pace. The confidence sure suffers badly, but really it was down to complete lack of will to do anything.

There was a grandsibling comment that you can actually force healthy person to dig ditches and do other menial labor no matter what. This is a problem well studied by prisons and armies of the world over millennia. Thing is, whipping isn't usually tried with burnt out devs, who knows it could have worked. It's not like your IQ drops 50 points or something. USSR and China had a fair experience of forced intellectual prison labor, and things were getting done.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharashka

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