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The Reality of Developer Burnout

kennethreitz.org

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Re: The Reality of Developer Burnout

#81

Post by varjag »

haswell wrote: post #43
paulcole wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can say this about any field. A ditch digger loses "intrinsic motivation" and chooses to not dig a ditch. The ditch digger can't do their job because of burnout. But somehow it is different in software development?

I'd argue that yes, it is different in software development. The nature of ditch digging is such that given enough effort, it's probably still possible to dig a ditch. It doesn't mean you'll be motivated to dig the ditch, it doesn't mean it won't be ridiculously hard to dig the ditch, but barring seriously physical issues preventing you from making progress, digging a ditch is mechanical and doesn't really involve a…

Hilariously I'm that person who was forced to dig ditches a few times and experienced a mild case of burnout as developer.

In both cases the performance was similar. With earthworks I simply didn't give a damn about the job, so just pecked the ground unenthusiastically. With burnout it was as if petard went off, but instead of earbuzz you get numb to planning, focusing and executing. I actually felt bad about it, but doubt you'd see much behaviour difference from the outside.

So I'd wager the lack of motivation is a serious handicap in both cases. Sure, "anyone can dig a ditch" but I dare you try doing it for a day if you are not into it. Similarly I was already an experienced developer at the point of burnout, and the job at hand wasn't challenging at all.

Re: The Reality of Developer Burnout

#82

Post by metaphorm »

paulcole wrote: post #36
zzzcpan wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's different in software, people can't do their jobs when this happens. Otherwise it shouldn't be called a burnout.

You can say this about any field. A ditch digger loses "intrinsic motivation" and chooses to not dig a ditch. The ditch digger can't do their job because of burnout. But somehow it is different in software development?

an emotionally exhausted ditch digger can still use their arms and legs without impediment. an emotionally exhausted programmer cannot focus mentally and cannot write code at all.

Re: The Reality of Developer Burnout

#84

Post by jwtadvice »

zoeysaurusrex wrote: post #6

> Not only that, but I found myself censoring my own private thought processes, in the silent comfort of my own home, because of the public opinion of people I follow on Twitter. I deleted my Twitter account because of this. I realized it was an empty echo chamber of inaction. If anything you say can be interpreted in a way that the hivemind can destroy you over, they will do it, even with incomplete information and…

> If anything you say can be interpreted in a way that the hivemind can destroy you over, they will do it, even with incomplete information and little to no proof.

I've found this to be true on Reddit, increasingly true on HN (if you look at my comment history you will see people trolling me and accusing me of being a foreign shill), and writ large in American politics.

Psychologically, people are anxious, they have little time, and they have a lot of information to filter.

They have an idea that because you are anonymous you very well may be a US information agent from the Fort Bragg propaganda center or a a propaganda agent from another country. They think that you may be from a different political party or from a group of people that you think are culturally a threat to their type of existence (cis white male, LBGTQ or urban, rural).

And so when they filter, they filter out the imagined adversary and anything that increased their level of anxiety. If they don't filter, they often attack it.

Re: The Reality of Developer Burnout

#85

Post by walrus1066 »

twothamendment wrote: post #31
walrus1066 wrote: post #19

I think the key is to not put pressure on yourself, and don't allow other people to do so. One person can only do so much, you can't make a baby in 5 months. Work a stable amount each day, on tasks in descending order of priority. I never work past 6 pm, and never work on weekends. If a deadline isn't met, it's the fault of the people that set the deadline.

You are right on. I learned a long time ago there is always more work and it always needs to be done last week. I work hard, but there is only so much a person can do. I'll put in extra time, but only when it really counts. Some deadlines were meant to be blown by and when you quit stressing yourself over things that are out of your control and focus on what you can do - life is better.

True true. With deadlines, if they're unrealistic, you've just got to compromise and either

a) reduce the scope

b) fail to meet the deadline

c) compromise the quality by frantically hacking things together over long nights and weekends.

Always go for option a), if you can't extend or get rid of the deadline.

Re: The Reality of Developer Burnout

#86

Post by kaffee »

> So, I unfollowed everyone on Twitter. Every single person. I stopped paying attention to tech trends and reading hacker news. I went into publish-only mode.

The "publish-only mode" is a great, pragmatic solution to this problem. We need some sort of revision to the Tao of the IETF: "Be conservative in what you send. If you have time and energy, be liberal in what you accept."

Re: The Reality of Developer Burnout

#87

Post by metaphorm »

rdavl wrote: post #45
dwaltrip wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are calling bullshit based some vague feelings of "job difficulty"? Do you have a robust mental model of the day to day experiences of these people who you are calling bullshit on? If not, I would be careful with your words. It can come off as fairly snide, ignorant, and callous.

I am saying depression is caused by large variety of factors and not just coding, if you have personal problems you will burnt out cos of them, and that will affect your coding, you can't blame software development for that. Also unless you are doing really stressful work what is it that makes you burn out? Maybe you have other interests? Not wanting to code all day every day does not mean you have burnt out. Also th…

read Ken Reitz' original article more closely. he actually did attribute the causes of his burn-out to various problems that weren't simply "too many hours of coding". the emotional drain from the politics and communications overhead of doing high-profile OSS projects seemed to be his primary problem.

Re: The Reality of Developer Burnout

#88

Post by jwtadvice »

treehau5 wrote: post #33
zoeysaurusrex wrote: post #6

> Not only that, but I found myself censoring my own private thought processes, in the silent comfort of my own home, because of the public opinion of people I follow on Twitter. I deleted my Twitter account because of this. I realized it was an empty echo chamber of inaction. If anything you say can be interpreted in a way that the hivemind can destroy you over, they will do it, even with incomplete information and…

It takes 10x the amount of energy to refute bs than to create it

Not only this but when the BS is an orthodox position it takes 10x the amount of energy per person who believed the bullshit.

The number of conversations I've had to have with friends and family about, let's say, the "Russian hacking of the election" or "the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq" or "the bulk collection NOT mass surveillance by US intelligence" is greater than even the amount of time I've had to spend speaking to each of them.

Re: The Reality of Developer Burnout

#89

Post by grive »

jamescostian wrote: post #73
treehau5 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It takes 10x the amount of energy to refute bs than to create it

It took me the same (1x) amount of energy to refute your comment as it did for you to create it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Your comment however contains very little in the way of actual refutation, as you missed the point and did not engage it in the least.

It is easy (1x) to create meaningless content, it is harder however to address it and to explain properly why the point was missed.

Building a sound argument, clearly and in a straightforward manner is hard. Understanding the non-sequitur of your interlocutor is hard. Extirping the salient part of the inconsistency will force you to shave off the useless fluff around it.

Adding that fluff is easier, as it only takes intellectual laziness.

Re: The Reality of Developer Burnout

#90

Post by nunez »

pc86 wrote: post #8
coldcode wrote: post #3

If you are developing software as a life, you don't have one; if on the other hand you are developing software for fun, you are having it; if you are just developing software for money; leave it at work. It's hard to be buried 100% in software and realize the rest of life is more important.

The best thing I ever did for my professional life was acquiring new interests that had nothing to do with software but were still intellectually and/or physically stimulating. Weightlifting is cheap, has proven physical and psychological benefits, and is eventually fun (sucks for the first few weeks/months though). I just recently starting taking lessons to get a private pilot's license. GA is expensive (relatively…

> anyone on here who isn't a student can afford it

LOL come on now.

It costs $5-10k to get a private pilot's license which requires at least 40 hours of flying time. Most schools will recommend that you do at least 2 hours per week, which usually comes out to $200-$400. (It's easy to forget things.)

Shit's expensive.

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