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Goodbye to GNU Libreboot

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Re: Goodbye to GNU Libreboot

#81

Post by dsp1234 »

vog wrote: post #66
ben0x539 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the FSF thought that minimizing drama was a priority, they could have accepted that the maintainer wanted to take libreboot out of the GNU project without prolonging the whole thing. Like, basically this submission, but a couple of months earlier. Also, more generally, I maintain that there's more nuance to the question of professional behavior than whether your communication includes common swear words.

> could have accepted that the maintainer wanted to take libreboot out of the GNU project without prolonging the whole thing If I read the FSF statements correctly, there were very good reasons for taking some time, which I found quite convincing. For instance, they were looking for a new maintainer of this GNU project, especially since GNU projects belong to GNU/FSF, not to the individual maintainers. The maintainer…

GNU projects belong to GNU/FSF

The only documentation that I see[0] about this just says "The program remains a GNU package unless/until the GNU project decides to decommission it.", but that's not a legal document. Assigning the copyright to the FSF would be a good indicator, but is not actually required to be a GNU package. So unless they have some other document to sign, then this seems to be a mutual contract which can be terminated by either party at any time. I don't know if that document exists (if it does, you'd think they'd link it on that page so people could review it), but if it doesn't, then I don't see any reason why the original submitter can't revoke GNU package status, like any other business relationship.

[0] - https://www.gnu.org/help/evaluation.en.html

Re: Goodbye to GNU Libreboot

#82

Post by _pfxa »

laumars wrote: post #76
djsumdog wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very difficult to classify people by e-mails. I worked with so many people who were very nice to me. We'd discuss requirements. I'd even type up timelines and e-mail them docs. Next day, a thread with every manager in the planet saying our team was stonewalling everything, being unhelpful, etc. etc. My boss would come up to my cube and say, "Stop e-mailing these people! Why are you e-mailing them? Pick up the ph…

In one of her latter posts she confesses that the person who was fired was a close friend of hers. So I think this is a case of her being too close to the subject matter to be objective. In fact I think she came to realise this herself but not until it was too late for her and the project: https://libreboot.org/gnu/#leah-not-a-hero

Well that does not justify any of this trouble she caused, indeed, it only makes it worse. Even the fired person herself has finished their frienship with her.

Re: Goodbye to GNU Libreboot

#83

Post by ars »

_pfxa wrote: post #63
LukeShu wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

she seems to have devoted considerable time and resources (monetary included) to the project. For a bit more context: Her full-time job is Minifree, a company she founded that sells computers with Libreboot pre-installed. Minifree has then contracted other developers to work on support for more hardware.

Well reading the front page it seems to mee that all they do is to deblob coreboot and combine it with GRUB and another package.

That's the easy part, the hard part is ensuring the computer actually works fully. That's the value added part.

Re: Goodbye to GNU Libreboot

#84

Post by kstrauser »

discordianfish wrote: post #39

Looking at how one-sided the discussion here but especially on reddit is should be worrying. Not saying it's the case, we all don't know, but if the accusations are right, it's absolutely reasonable to not want to work with these people. You can say all you want about being professional and not having politics influence your technical decisions, but that's easy to say if it's not your life style choices that are disc…

"If". I currently consider that an extraordinary claim, given the FSF's reason for existence and RMS's long publicly stated beliefs. Of course Rowe's claims are possible! It's just that they fly in the face of expectations given all the FSF's actions over the years.

Rowe herself says (https://libreboot.org/gnu/#leah-not-a-hero):

> The trans person who was fired, I had already lost as a friend, and was deeply upset at the time. I had started to say nasty things to this person, over a disagreement, which was also my fault. I thought that exposing the FSF for their discriminatory practises would redeem me and possibly make that person be my friend again.

She got in a fight with a friend, accused the FSF of misdeeds partly in hopes of winning that friend back, and outed a person who did not want to be outed. Between the parties involved and the circumstances, I'm inclined to give the FSF the benefit of the doubt. I am willing to be proven wrong! But until then, I see no reason whatsoever to believe those accusations.

Re: Goodbye to GNU Libreboot

#85

Post by wtf_fsf »

digler999 wrote: post #64
djsumdog wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate to make those assumptions. There is so little information. However, I have a huge respect for the FSF and would be more inclined that they'd let someone go because of practical and professional issues. Letting go of people is not a decision to be taken lightly and originations have to weigh everything. From the e-mail threads, she denounced the entire FSF and spoke for all Libreboot contributors. I do not like…

http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/libreboot/2016-09/msg00036... Leah: FSF and GNU can both go fuck themselves. there's no assumption. "leah" is making an ass out of herself and has no business working in that capacity. Thats plenty of information.

Oh yes because Stallman or Linus has never told anyone to go fuck themselves. Really i think this is pure sexism. It's ok for men to "disrupt" to "call" people out and just be rude douches, if they have merit... But when a feminine person does it all of a sudden they are toxic, and have no merit. Seriously you people are proving Leah's point over and over. The Tech/FOSS community is out of touch with the real world and are trying to lynch someone publicly for daring to say boo to their world view.

Re: Goodbye to GNU Libreboot

#86

Post by ww520 »

digi_owl wrote: post #46
discordianfish wrote: post #39

Looking at how one-sided the discussion here but especially on reddit is should be worrying. Not saying it's the case, we all don't know, but if the accusations are right, it's absolutely reasonable to not want to work with these people. You can say all you want about being professional and not having politics influence your technical decisions, but that's easy to say if it's not your life style choices that are disc…

The only person that can set the record straight, the person that was let go by the FSF, have been silent the whole time.

It seems the person would rather not be part of the drama. Leah was having a heated argument with this person. As a way to get back/appease (??) to this person, Leah blew up on FSF, against the wish of that person.

https://libreboot.org/gnu/#leah-not-a-hero

Re: Goodbye to GNU Libreboot

#87

Post by chickenfries »

josteink wrote: post #43
ben0x539 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's fair to lay the blame for the drama at her feet. The FSF could have handled this more professionally from the beginning.

What are you talking about? FSF handled it 100% examplary from the get go. Leah Rowe however was the toxic and crazy drama queen who couldn't keep a civil tone, and even her initial email included the word "fuck". To top it off, she had zero proof for her allegations, and the person she claimed to represent specifically didn't want her to raise those allegations in her name. In the rest of the world, we refer that as…

I don't have much to add to this discussion... but historically the FOSS community loves sharing Linus' nastygrams... I find people having a problem with this developer's tone somewhat sexist and irrelevant.

Re: Goodbye to GNU Libreboot

#88

Post by rebelwebmaster »

RubyPinch wrote: post #14
ejcx wrote: post #3

Sounds like half the story. The libreboot website says that they left GNU to protest transgender discrimination at the FSF.[0] [0] https://libreboot.org/

more near a 10th of the story Neither side wants to put up any substantial verifiable information about it, so there is nothing to talk about on that front.

I don't think there's much else the FSF could say here without treading into legally dubious territory either.

Re: Goodbye to GNU Libreboot

#89

Post by kebolio »

_pfxa wrote: post #63
LukeShu wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

she seems to have devoted considerable time and resources (monetary included) to the project. For a bit more context: Her full-time job is Minifree, a company she founded that sells computers with Libreboot pre-installed. Minifree has then contracted other developers to work on support for more hardware.

Well reading the front page it seems to mee that all they do is to deblob coreboot and combine it with GRUB and another package.

Libreboot also disables Intel ME and other such unwanted gubbins, which Coreboot doesn't do (or doesn't expose a means to configure it to do so).

Re: Goodbye to GNU Libreboot

#90

Post by digi_owl »

ww520 wrote: post #86
digi_owl wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only person that can set the record straight, the person that was let go by the FSF, have been silent the whole time.

It seems the person would rather not be part of the drama. Leah was having a heated argument with this person. As a way to get back/appease (??) to this person, Leah blew up on FSF, against the wish of that person. https://libreboot.org/gnu/#leah-not-a-hero

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