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Goodbye to GNU Libreboot

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Re: Goodbye to GNU Libreboot

#61

Post by fsf-fen-sucks »

jwtadvice wrote: post #50

Having seen a number of 'libre' projects disappear or radically change management (sometimes under unlitigated accusations of harassment or misconduct), I hope that important projects to the freedom of computer use continue to exist. Recently TrueCrypt has disappeared, TOR got new management (a bunch of suits), etc. Personal spats aside, these projects are bigger than the organizations and people who sacrifice so muc…

Too late, you assume the FSF isn't just one of the many pawns used to thwart the free libre projects. Perhaps we shouldn't be supporting the FSF anymore if they aren't supporting what needs to be done because they are now a bunch of suits.

Re: Goodbye to GNU Libreboot

#62

Post by fsf-fen-sucks »

LukeShu wrote: post #49
DashRattlesnake wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that because there is very little original development occurring in Libreboot (it's my understanding that it's basically Coreboot with some binary blobs removed but not actually replaced).

Libreboot and other projects with a similar relationship to upstream suffer from a paradox: It appears that no original development is happening there, because all of the original development is sent upstream. The work done by developers hired to work on Libreboot looks like work done on Coreboot, because Libreboot cooperates with Coreboot and sends their work upstream.

Exactly the "suits" take credit for all the lower minions work yet again

Re: Goodbye to GNU Libreboot

#63

Post by _pfxa »

LukeShu wrote: post #45
AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #12

E-drama aside, this is probably for the better, given the following: - The developer has sole commit rights against the repo and hence no further would could be done on it without forking. - The developer's continued trashing of the FSF poisoned the well for any number of people who might have wanted to work on Libreboot, GNU-version or otherwise. The fact is, no one wants to be part of a "contentious" fork. It's a p…

she seems to have devoted considerable time and resources (monetary included) to the project. For a bit more context: Her full-time job is Minifree, a company she founded that sells computers with Libreboot pre-installed. Minifree has then contracted other developers to work on support for more hardware.

Well reading the front page it seems to mee that all they do is to deblob coreboot and combine it with GRUB and another package.

Re: Goodbye to GNU Libreboot

#64

Post by digler999 »

djsumdog wrote: post #35
digler999 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

sounds like 9/10ths of the story. the transgender person who left sounded very unstable and unprofessional. Not surprising the organization wanted to completely divorce themselves from someone who acts irrationally.

I hate to make those assumptions. There is so little information. However, I have a huge respect for the FSF and would be more inclined that they'd let someone go because of practical and professional issues. Letting go of people is not a decision to be taken lightly and originations have to weigh everything. From the e-mail threads, she denounced the entire FSF and spoke for all Libreboot contributors. I do not like…

http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/libreboot/2016-09/msg00036...

Leah: FSF and GNU can both go fuck themselves.

there's no assumption. "leah" is making an ass out of herself and has no business working in that capacity. Thats plenty of information.

Re: Goodbye to GNU Libreboot

#65

Post by fsf-fen-sucks »

amyjess wrote: post #44
digler999 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

sounds like 9/10ths of the story. the transgender person who left sounded very unstable and unprofessional. Not surprising the organization wanted to completely divorce themselves from someone who acts irrationally.

You're confusing two different trans people. One was fired by the FSF, and another, Leah Rowe, claimed her friend's firing was an instance of transphobic discrimination and pulled Libreboot from GNU. The person who got fired from GNU hasn't said a word on the subject, and there's no evidence of her being unstable and unprofessional. Leah Rowe, on the other hand, was indeed acting unstable and unprofessional. The real…

I find it difficult to believe people calling others toxic, or unstable. Sounds like just another FSF whack job trying to further smear a project they lost control over. Sounds like respectability politics, gas lighting, and making shit up about what happened to someone who "hasn't said a word on the subject".

Re: Goodbye to GNU Libreboot

#66

Post by vog »

ben0x539 wrote: post #53
josteink wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you talking about? FSF handled it 100% examplary from the get go. Leah Rowe however was the toxic and crazy drama queen who couldn't keep a civil tone, and even her initial email included the word "fuck". To top it off, she had zero proof for her allegations, and the person she claimed to represent specifically didn't want her to raise those allegations in her name. In the rest of the world, we refer that as…

If the FSF thought that minimizing drama was a priority, they could have accepted that the maintainer wanted to take libreboot out of the GNU project without prolonging the whole thing. Like, basically this submission, but a couple of months earlier. Also, more generally, I maintain that there's more nuance to the question of professional behavior than whether your communication includes common swear words.

> could have accepted that the maintainer wanted to take libreboot out of the GNU project without prolonging the whole thing

If I read the FSF statements correctly, there were very good reasons for taking some time, which I found quite convincing.

For instance, they were looking for a new maintainer of this GNU project, especially since GNU projects belong to GNU/FSF, not to the individual maintainers. The maintainers are free to step down and let other maintainers continue a project.

Would it have been more professional if they had thrown away their management process for GNU projects in this single case?

Re: Goodbye to GNU Libreboot

#67

Post by qwertyuiop924 »

discordianfish wrote: post #48
_pfxa wrote: post #30

This is from http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/libreboot/2016-09/msg00036... LR> I'm declaring here and now to the whole world that Libreboot is no longer LR> part of the GNU project. I do not believe that the FSF or the GNU project LR> deserve to exist. Mistakes are everywhere and are done by everybody. A mistake was done by some people in FSF, the reaction is exaggerated to say the least. Furthermore, it's not clea…

> Whatever the case is, even though I know null about the project, I can easily say that Leah Rowe, whoever she might be, is apparently toxic for the project. So you don't know anything about the project beside that their main/core maintainer accuses GNU project to have fired a trans person and therefor she doesn't want to work there anymore. Call me SJW or Gutmensch but if that makes you 'easily say' that she is 'ap…

I'm not GP, but

>Call me SJW or Gutmensch but if that makes you 'easily say' that she is 'apparently toxic', you are a prime example for what is going wrong in tech.

I don't even know what SJW means anymore. There are too many definitions floating around. But it doesn't matter, because I don't care what you are, and I'm not interested in insulting you. That's pointless. While I may not always succeed at doing so (staying detached is hard!), I would rather attack ideas than people.

The thing is, whether or not what Leah did was right, how she went about it was entirely wrong. If she doesn't want to work for the FSF, and if she wants to fight the FSF over its actions, I don't care. But her lack of professionalism is unacceptable. That's why I would call her toxic (although I haven't done that yet).

Re: Goodbye to GNU Libreboot

#68

Post by qwertyuiop924 »

discordianfish wrote: post #39

Looking at how one-sided the discussion here but especially on reddit is should be worrying. Not saying it's the case, we all don't know, but if the accusations are right, it's absolutely reasonable to not want to work with these people. You can say all you want about being professional and not having politics influence your technical decisions, but that's easy to say if it's not your life style choices that are disc…

>but if the accusations are right, it's absolutely reasonable to not want to work with these people.

At this point, that's a big if.

In any case, I do a lot of gaming, so my perspective may be warped here, but I would blame Reddit's one-sidedness on KotakuInAction/GamerGate. After people like Anita Sarkeesian and that particular kerfuffle, anybody involved in that scene (even tangentially) is going to want very strong evidence before believing any claims of persecution (and if you feel like talking Anita and GamerGate themselves, rather than whether or not you think that it contributed to the atmosphere I'm describing, please don't. I don't want another flame war). Claims of persecution that I find rather improbable. The FSF, say what you will about them, have never been the sorts to persecute based on race and gender.

Re: Goodbye to GNU Libreboot

#69

Post by qwertyuiop924 »

ejcx wrote: post #3

Sounds like half the story. The libreboot website says that they left GNU to protest transgender discrimination at the FSF.[0] [0] https://libreboot.org/

Yes, but the transgender person in question didn't want the issue to be brought up, there's no evidence of discrimination, and Leah's actions were incredibly unprofessional, no matter whether there was a decent reason for them initially.

Re: Goodbye to GNU Libreboot

#70

Post by j_s »

ecaron wrote: post #21
ejcx wrote: post #3

Sounds like half the story. The libreboot website says that they left GNU to protest transgender discrimination at the FSF.[0] [0] https://libreboot.org/

Better source for her side of the story is at https://libreboot.org/gnu/

I thought that exposing the FSF for their discriminatory practises would redeem me and possibly make that person be my friend again.

https://libreboot.org/gnu/#leah-not-a-hero

Speaks to the motivation for this whole situation.

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