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The Indian government is set to endorse Universal Basic Income

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Re: The Indian government is set to endorse Universal Basic Income

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We measure success or failure of such economic policies with statistics, not by political opinion polling. You can't go by statistics in an economic move like demonetization this early. The move itself is done keeping in mind the long term impact. 70% of those polled understand that and hence keep an open-mind. > They have been conducting raids to catch black money hoarders and counterfeit currency forever. They ha…

> What kind of business is your family in that caused "personally suffered significant monetary loss on our 100% tax paid cash"? I'm curious to know and understand. I am a NRI, me and my family have significant amount of Indian currency in US. All of it is 100% tax paid. Indian Government has provided us no way to exchange currency or deposit it in our account if we are outside India. Modi declared our hard earned mo…

> Indian Government has provided us no way to exchange currency or deposit it in our account if we are outside India. Modi declared our hard earned money as black money, and labelled us as criminals.

This is a blatant lie. RBI allows you (a.k.a NRIs only) to deposit this money till 31st of March 2017 in it's branches. Modi never declared your hard earned money as black money or labelled you criminals. I'm now beginning to wonder why you have significant amount of Indian currency in the US. What use is it for you there? RBI has strict rules about how much INR you can take outside India (Rs. 25000 per person). This rule was made to ensure that if/when you return to India you have enough INR for lodging/transportation/flight expenses etc. You don't need INR to transact outside India anyways so this whole thing of having a "significant amount of Indian currency in US" is suspicious to me.

> My father in India runs a cash and carry wholesale businesses. His typical customer is a street vendor in some remote village. When they come to my father's to buy inventory, they pay in cash because that is the only way for them to accept and make payments in villages. Most of them don't even have a bank account. When Modi announced demonetization, his business dropped to almost zero. Two months since, it still hasn't recovered much. His business is seasonal (woolen products), most of it is in winter months only. Demonetization has turned this whole year into a major loss for him and it has literally crashed their Industry, which is resulting in layoffs.

I would have believed this story if it wasn't prefixed with your excuse to not be able to deposit your INR stash just because you are an NRI. This whole thing sounds really fishy to me.

> Modi ji gave immunity to Politicians, so Political parties can deposit unlimited amount of cash tax free. I thought demonetization was a scheme, but it turns out it is a major scam.

No he did not. Mayawati and her brother are already under investigation for a deposit of 104 crores into their party bank accounts. AIADMK chief secretary was arrested for laundering black money. More such political arrests have happened (including some BJP workers and party members who were showing off to the entire World that they were clean but were actually hoarding black money).

This argument is also not convincing. I'm sorry but I'm beginning to doubt your story. Especially when you mentioned that you are an NRI and have significant amount of INR in the US. It just doesn't add up. RBI notifications prohibit you to carry so much INR outside India and this rule existed for many years. How much INR do you have with you?

Re: The Indian government is set to endorse Universal Basic Income

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We measure success or failure of such economic policies with statistics, not by political opinion polling. You can't go by statistics in an economic move like demonetization this early. The move itself is done keeping in mind the long term impact. 70% of those polled understand that and hence keep an open-mind. > They have been conducting raids to catch black money hoarders and counterfeit currency forever. They ha…

> What kind of business is your family in that caused "personally suffered significant monetary loss on our 100% tax paid cash"? I'm curious to know and understand. I am a NRI, me and my family have significant amount of Indian currency in US. All of it is 100% tax paid. Indian Government has provided us no way to exchange currency or deposit it in our account if we are outside India. Modi declared our hard earned mo…

Oh it looks like it is not even March 31st 2017 for NRIs but it is June 30th 2017 as per RBI notification: https://www.rbi.org.in/Scripts/NotificationUser.aspx?Id=1080...

So you have 6 months time to deposit your old 500 and 1000 notes which even resident Indians don't enjoy as a privilege. Why are you whining?

Re: The Indian government is set to endorse Universal Basic Income

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have seen this happen in Pakistan during the years of Musharraf's presidency. The economy was moving up and more investments were coming in. More money was flowing. The prices of local products went up, especially food. Of course, more foreign products also made their way into the country. Some people were profiting from this movement, but the people who were poor could not benefit and they sunk deeper and went hun…

The changes you describe are very different than something like introducing BI and I would expect them to do pretty much what you describe. Prices are very sensitive to the distribution of income, so while external capital investment may increase demand for labor and increase agricultural productivity, it also skews production away from agriculture. This is also the answer to your closing question: Since those who ne…

> allocation of income is shifted downwards, so the allocation of production shifts accordingly

Your explanation makes a lot of sense. It points to the lack of distribution of income as the culprit behind hunger and poverty. But it also narrows the premise in which UBI works: 1) when money is not printed artificially to fulfill UBI, and 2) when financial energy is taken away from more affluent portions of the economy.

This seems like adding another element of fragility vulnerable to manipulation in an already complex economic system.

Re: The Indian government is set to endorse Universal Basic Income

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What kind of business is your family in that caused "personally suffered significant monetary loss on our 100% tax paid cash"? I'm curious to know and understand. I am a NRI, me and my family have significant amount of Indian currency in US. All of it is 100% tax paid. Indian Government has provided us no way to exchange currency or deposit it in our account if we are outside India. Modi declared our hard earned mo…

Oh it looks like it is not even March 31st 2017 for NRIs but it is June 30th 2017 as per RBI notification: https://www.rbi.org.in/Scripts/NotificationUser.aspx?Id=1080... So you have 6 months time to deposit your old 500 and 1000 notes which even resident Indians don't enjoy as a privilege. Why are you whining?

> So you have 6 months time to deposit your old 500 and 1000 notes which even resident Indians don't enjoy as a privilege.

Previously, we could simply exchange Indian currency to any other currency abroad. But now there is no way for us to exchange money in US.

My whole family will have to go to India to exchange money, one person can only carry a maximum of Rs. 25,000. So six members of my family would have to take time off from work and go to India to exchange 1.5 lakh Rupees. Moreover, it would cost us around Rs. 6 lakhs to make a trip to India.

I don't want any privilege, I just want my hard earned money back.

> Why are you whining?

I am not a blind bhakt. I lost 1.5 lakhs in this Modi's scam, this scam also destroyed my father's business in India.

Modi killed over 100 people and destroyed millions of jobs, so he can write off bad loans worth billions for his cronies.

Re: The Indian government is set to endorse Universal Basic Income

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What kind of business is your family in that caused "personally suffered significant monetary loss on our 100% tax paid cash"? I'm curious to know and understand. I am a NRI, me and my family have significant amount of Indian currency in US. All of it is 100% tax paid. Indian Government has provided us no way to exchange currency or deposit it in our account if we are outside India. Modi declared our hard earned mo…

> Indian Government has provided us no way to exchange currency or deposit it in our account if we are outside India. Modi declared our hard earned money as black money, and labelled us as criminals. This is a blatant lie. RBI allows you (a.k.a NRIs only) to deposit this money till 31st of March 2017 in it's branches. Modi never declared your hard earned money as black money or labelled you criminals. I'm now beginni…

> This is a blatant lie. RBI allows you (a.k.a NRIs only) to deposit this money till 31st of March 2017 in it's branches.

Previously, we could simply exchange Indian currency to any other currency abroad. But now there is no way for us to exchange money in US.

My whole family will have to go to India to exchange money, one person can only carry a maximum of Rs. 25,000. So six members of my family would have to take time off from work and go to India to exchange 1.5 lakh Rupees. Moreover, it would cost us around Rs. 6 lakhs to make a trip to India.

> This rule was made to ensure that if/when you return to India you have enough INR for lodging/transportation/flight expenses etc. You don't need INR to transact outside India anyways so this whole thing of having a "significant amount of Indian currency in US" is suspicious to me.

We have a big family in US, and almost everyone have 20-25k INR for travel expenses. That makes a total of 1.5L in my household. All my NRI friends and relatives are suffering this loss.

> I would have believed this story if it wasn't prefixed with your excuse to not be able to deposit your INR stash just because you are an NRI. This whole thing sounds really fishy to me.

I just busted your propaganda of NRI's allowed to exchange money, but you ignore the fact that you would have to travel to India and spend over 1 lakh per person to exchange money.

Clearly, you have neither have experience exchanging money has a NRI nor running a local cash business. Yet, you accuse others of lying. From your post history, you sound like a BJP propagandist.

Re: The Indian government is set to endorse Universal Basic Income

#156
post #60
post #49

I don't see how they would afford this. Rough approximations show that even giving $20 a month to India's 900 million adult population would mean an annual expenditure of 216 billion dollars, more than 4 times the country's annual defence budget. Where does all this money come from? Increased taxes from the middle class (so that they pay $40 to get $20)?

This is what I point out whenever BI is brought up as a possibility in the US. With 1/4 the population of India, higher GDP, and allowing for all the existing entitlement programs being retired, we can't afford it either. The math just doesn't work out. Edit: Some grossly simplified numbers. Assumptions: BI matches poverty level. Everyone gets BI (parents receive their children's payments until they reach majority).…

As a proponent of this kind of program, I totally agree that $20k is much higher than we could presently afford. The numbers look substantially more practical at 1/2 or 1/3 that, despite replacing less.

Re: The Indian government is set to endorse Universal Basic Income

#157

I just don't see how it won't cause massive inflation. basically to the point that the payout is practically worthless.

Because no money is being created, it's being reallocated from other people, so it doesn't directly affect the money supply. The recipients are more likely to spend it, which creates some demand (and thus inflation), but it should still be less than the increase in spending power it provides them.

A lot of the money held me the wealthy isn't competing with me for potatoes. I could be wrong but if ever single person had 1,000$ more, wouldn't the price of basic goods go up to accommodate?

Re: The Indian government is set to endorse Universal Basic Income

#158
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You gotta be careful of the Laffer Curve[0] though. Tap into the rich too much and they'll leave. Make it illegal to leave... well, your country is going downhill fast. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laffer_curve

What is the revenue-maximizing rate of taxation under the Laffer curve?

About 70% of income, according to estimates. It varies for other taxes (capital, consumption, etc.).

Source article: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0304393211...

Re: The Indian government is set to endorse Universal Basic Income

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We measure success or failure of such economic policies with statistics, not by political opinion polling - Yes. Hence we need to check the data to see if worked instead of picking political points like blood of citizens or Gujarat riots.

> picking political points like blood of citizens Over 100 people have died due to demonetization scam[1]. It is not an opinion, they are not even just facts and statistics, 100 real people have died and their families have been destroyed. Let that sink in. [1] Modi ji gave immunity to Politicians, so Political parties can deposit unlimited amount of cash tax free. I thought demonetization was a scheme, but it turns…

You were the one who wanted it be data driven not politicized. Pick one.

Re: The Indian government is set to endorse Universal Basic Income

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you really think people will install and use PayTm apps overnight in villages ?. Was there any research done on mobile literacy or making things easier in rural areas ? Also, you wish to ignore facts and reasoning posted by economists all in the name of "disruption". And FYI The Planning Commission of India AKA "Policy Pundits" consists of renowned economists.

Mobile literacy? Was such a research done before the Mobile and Telecom revolution? Spare me your ignorance please. Forget the Planning Commission of India, we have had the worst experience with a Prime Minister, who was an Economist, and had no spine to take on the corrupt or even implement his own policies. India practically lost 10 years of it's growth to this useless economist. So no please, we don't need more ec…

The 90 reforms were by the same person you are criticizing.
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