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The Indian government is set to endorse Universal Basic Income

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Re: The Indian government is set to endorse Universal Basic Income

#141

Post by Jarwain »

pkaye wrote: post #101
austincheney wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The money comes from sacrificing existing entitlement programs, which might actually cost more. Think about it like this in the US: Imagine giving everybody a basic income and eliminating minimum wage, social security, medicare, welfare, and so forth... Naturally some people would become wealthier (paying down existing debts) and some people would become poorer (spending money more rapidly and increasing their debt b…

So you are taking money out of social security and medicare which currently people earned (you return is somewhat proportional to how much taxes you paid) into a general pool? In that case, we should start applying FICA taxes on investment income also then because then it is a general tax.

I would think that medicare becomes a sort of single-payer system; you get the same Basic Income and the costs of the insurance come from the pool.

I do think that some aspects of our tax system could be reworked. Creating a wealth tax and removing income and other redundant taxes seems to be a popular idea[1]

[1](http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/19/opinion/to-reduce-inequali...)

Re: The Indian government is set to endorse Universal Basic Income

#142

Post by gertef »

pkaye wrote: post #101
austincheney wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The money comes from sacrificing existing entitlement programs, which might actually cost more. Think about it like this in the US: Imagine giving everybody a basic income and eliminating minimum wage, social security, medicare, welfare, and so forth... Naturally some people would become wealthier (paying down existing debts) and some people would become poorer (spending money more rapidly and increasing their debt b…

So you are taking money out of social security and medicare which currently people earned (you return is somewhat proportional to how much taxes you paid) into a general pool? In that case, we should start applying FICA taxes on investment income also then because then it is a general tax.

money is fungible, and SS benefits are extremely extremely loosely proportional to how much taxes you paid.

Re: The Indian government is set to endorse Universal Basic Income

#143

Post by gertef »

ythn wrote: post #69
IslaDeEncanta wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a class of wealthy people they can tap into.

You gotta be careful of the Laffer Curve[0] though. Tap into the rich too much and they'll leave. Make it illegal to leave... well, your country is going downhill fast. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laffer_curve

They won't leave if it costs them access to the hugely profitable domestic market that makes them rich.

Re: The Indian government is set to endorse Universal Basic Income

#144

Post by gertef »

panglott wrote: post #91
ythn wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You gotta be careful of the Laffer Curve[0] though. Tap into the rich too much and they'll leave. Make it illegal to leave... well, your country is going downhill fast. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laffer_curve

What is the revenue-maximizing rate of taxation under the Laffer curve?

The exact value is near impossible to pinpoint, but you can find it by gradient methods. One thing for certain is that it's lower than the rate I currently pay. ;-)

Re: The Indian government is set to endorse Universal Basic Income

#146

Post by bitwiseand »

shripadk wrote: post #135
bitwiseand wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Should we call transportation a failure and put a halt to every mode of transportation (be it autos, cars, buses, trains, planes etc) just because of this statistic or should we work towards improving the system?" Are you actually comparing currency to transportation ? People have a choice in the mode of transport. Your villager however can't use bitcoins because his Rs.500 note isn't legal tender. "I have a wider p…

> Do you also disagree with the countless economists that have criticized the move based on theory and facts. Or is that "foreign propaganda" for you ? I definitely disagree with the "countless economists" mainly because economists love status-quo and despise disruption. We had "countless economists" say that the Telecom revolution in the 1990's was a big burden on Indian exchequer and a waste of resources. Today eve…

Do you really think people will install and use PayTm apps overnight in villages ?. Was there any research done on mobile literacy or making things easier in rural areas ?

Also, you wish to ignore facts and reasoning posted by economists all in the name of "disruption". And FYI The Planning Commission of India AKA "Policy Pundits" consists of renowned economists.

Re: The Indian government is set to endorse Universal Basic Income

#147

Post by RealGeek »

shripadk wrote: post #71
RealGeek wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 70% of those polled (average of all polls conducted by media and independent media houses) disagree with you. We measure success or failure of such economic policies with statistics, not by political opinion polling. > You fail to mention about all those getting caught with counterfeit currency and black money and still continue to be caught. They have been conducting raids to catch black money hoarders and counter…

> We measure success or failure of such economic policies with statistics, not by political opinion polling. You can't go by statistics in an economic move like demonetization this early. The move itself is done keeping in mind the long term impact. 70% of those polled understand that and hence keep an open-mind. > They have been conducting raids to catch black money hoarders and counterfeit currency forever. They ha…

> What kind of business is your family in that caused "personally suffered significant monetary loss on our 100% tax paid cash"? I'm curious to know and understand.

I am a NRI, me and my family have significant amount of Indian currency in US. All of it is 100% tax paid.

Indian Government has provided us no way to exchange currency or deposit it in our account if we are outside India. Modi declared our hard earned money as black money, and labelled us as criminals.

My father in India runs a cash and carry wholesale businesses. His typical customer is a street vendor in some remote village. When they come to my father's to buy inventory, they pay in cash because that is the only way for them to accept and make payments in villages. Most of them don't even have a bank account.

When Modi announced demonetization, his business dropped to almost zero. Two months since, it still hasn't recovered much. His business is seasonal (woolen products), most of it is in winter months only. Demonetization has turned this whole year into a major loss for him and it has literally crashed their Industry, which is resulting in layoffs.

Modi ji gave immunity to Politicians, so Political parties can deposit unlimited amount of cash tax free. I thought demonetization was a scheme, but it turns out it is a major scam.

Re: The Indian government is set to endorse Universal Basic Income

#148

Post by ythn »

thesimpsons1022 wrote: post #106
ythn wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You gotta be careful of the Laffer Curve[0] though. Tap into the rich too much and they'll leave. Make it illegal to leave... well, your country is going downhill fast. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laffer_curve

the laffer curve and supply side economics is junk/propoganda masquerading as economics. It's about as real as the scientific studies exxon releases against global warming.

> economics in general is junk and a bogus field

FTFY

Re: The Indian government is set to endorse Universal Basic Income

#149

Post by RealGeek »

hesarenu wrote: post #80
RealGeek wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 70% of those polled (average of all polls conducted by media and independent media houses) disagree with you. We measure success or failure of such economic policies with statistics, not by political opinion polling. > You fail to mention about all those getting caught with counterfeit currency and black money and still continue to be caught. They have been conducting raids to catch black money hoarders and counter…

We measure success or failure of such economic policies with statistics, not by political opinion polling - Yes. Hence we need to check the data to see if worked instead of picking political points like blood of citizens or Gujarat riots.

> picking political points like blood of citizens

Over 100 people have died due to demonetization scam[1]. It is not an opinion, they are not even just facts and statistics, 100 real people have died and their families have been destroyed. Let that sink in.

[1] Modi ji gave immunity to Politicians, so Political parties can deposit unlimited amount of cash tax free. I thought demonetization was a scheme, but it turns out it is a major scam.

Re: The Indian government is set to endorse Universal Basic Income

#150

Post by shripadk »

bitwiseand wrote: post #146
shripadk wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you also disagree with the countless economists that have criticized the move based on theory and facts. Or is that "foreign propaganda" for you ? I definitely disagree with the "countless economists" mainly because economists love status-quo and despise disruption. We had "countless economists" say that the Telecom revolution in the 1990's was a big burden on Indian exchequer and a waste of resources. Today eve…

Do you really think people will install and use PayTm apps overnight in villages ?. Was there any research done on mobile literacy or making things easier in rural areas ? Also, you wish to ignore facts and reasoning posted by economists all in the name of "disruption". And FYI The Planning Commission of India AKA "Policy Pundits" consists of renowned economists.

Mobile literacy? Was such a research done before the Mobile and Telecom revolution? Spare me your ignorance please.

Forget the Planning Commission of India, we have had the worst experience with a Prime Minister, who was an Economist, and had no spine to take on the corrupt or even implement his own policies. India practically lost 10 years of it's growth to this useless economist. So no please, we don't need more economists. We have more than enough Economists. We need someone who can take tough policy decisions.

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