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GNU Emacs 23.2 released

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Re: GNU Emacs 23.2 released

#61
post #35
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a fair question. Emacs is one of few editors left that makes it possible to work on multiple files at once without taking your hands off the keyboard. No fumbling with the mouse. Watch someone who has mastered Emacs edit some code and you'll understand its appeal.

Going a little further, Emacs is itself (at least a lot of it, including js-mode, for instance) written in Emacs Lisp. This makes most of it modifiable by its user. It's not impossibly hard either - I have made a minor mode for Pyccuracy tests in a couple hours. Learned some in the process. Even the "configuration files" are, really, Lisp code, not bags of values and options.

Just to add to the language-configuration thing on the vim side...

Vim configuration is also not a bag of options and values; by default, it uses vimscript. vimscript is an interesting language (supports a form of OOP) but only really usable in the vim world, so it is up to you if you want to learn it to do things besides assign values to options.

Alternatively, vim allows you to do editor customization in perl, and while I have found very little documentation for it, it also supports mzscheme.

How does this kind of thing help anyone? Why is Notepad just not good enough? You can add entire text-manipulation features to your editor, including Intellisense to your specifications, tools for refactoring, integration with other tools outside the editor, and so forth.

Both editors have large communities and have few real competitors for fast and powerful text editing (I hear TextMate comes close).

Re: GNU Emacs 23.2 released

#62
post #35
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a fair question. Emacs is one of few editors left that makes it possible to work on multiple files at once without taking your hands off the keyboard. No fumbling with the mouse. Watch someone who has mastered Emacs edit some code and you'll understand its appeal.

Going a little further, Emacs is itself (at least a lot of it, including js-mode, for instance) written in Emacs Lisp. This makes most of it modifiable by its user. It's not impossibly hard either - I have made a minor mode for Pyccuracy tests in a couple hours. Learned some in the process. Even the "configuration files" are, really, Lisp code, not bags of values and options.

I just checked the breakdown with sloccount.

C: 20% ELisp: 78%

Re: GNU Emacs 23.2 released

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wrote him a mail. It was not by purpose. He will check that later.

Heh, I also did digging and sent him a mail. Looks like a missing linker flag.

Thanks, both of you. :-) The version up there now works with 10.5, according to holygoat (thanks to the magic "-mmacosx-version-min=10.5" compiler flag).

Re: GNU Emacs 23.2 released

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heh, I also did digging and sent him a mail. Looks like a missing linker flag.

Thanks, both of you. :-) The version up there now works with 10.5, according to holygoat (thanks to the magic "-mmacosx-version-min=10.5" compiler flag).

Cool thanks, works fine! :)

Also good to know about that compiler flag. :)

Re: GNU Emacs 23.2 released

#65
post #46
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? I can edit multiple files in Windows Notepad by pressing Alt+Tab. There are some nice features in Emacs but any editor allows working on multiple files without a mouse.

That is technically true, but no one would actually be productive in that environment. Switching to the file you want is an O(n) operation with that workflow. That would drive anyone insane. In proper editors you can switch to the file you want by hitting a command and then typing a few chars of the file you want, then return.

Nonsense. I've done it both ways, and doing it the way you describe is actually slower.

Re: GNU Emacs 23.2 released

#66
post #62
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Going a little further, Emacs is itself (at least a lot of it, including js-mode, for instance) written in Emacs Lisp. This makes most of it modifiable by its user. It's not impossibly hard either - I have made a minor mode for Pyccuracy tests in a couple hours. Learned some in the process. Even the "configuration files" are, really, Lisp code, not bags of values and options.

I just checked the breakdown with sloccount. C: 20% ELisp: 78%

What's the last 2%?

Re: GNU Emacs 23.2 released

#68
post #48
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm, I'm still not quite sure I 'get it.' For instance, your comment, 'no fumbling with the mouse' confuses me. I've always viewed the mouse as something that saves time, a shortcut to where you want to go or what you want to do. Especially on a Mac with non-maximized windows and Exposé mapped to a mouse button, I've never felt like I was 'fumbling.' I guess I'll ask an Emacs user to demonstrate next time I meet one.

There are operations where the mouse is more efficient than the keyboard and vice versa. Anyone who says otherwise is selling something. That said, I often trade the time + context switch of moving to the mouse for a slightly less-efficient keyboard command. Overall it's probably a toss-up, I just like to stay near the home row. My friend at work uses the mouse a lot and he's very good at using it to edit text.

Agreed. IDE with extensive keyboard shortcuts + using the mouse occasionally for the odd-length text jump/highlight VS emacs baroque command structure is probably about the same for those who have mastered each. Years of surfing the web have most people very adept and quick with a mouse.

Re: GNU Emacs 23.2 released

#69
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm, I'm still not quite sure I 'get it.' For instance, your comment, 'no fumbling with the mouse' confuses me. I've always viewed the mouse as something that saves time, a shortcut to where you want to go or what you want to do. Especially on a Mac with non-maximized windows and Exposé mapped to a mouse button, I've never felt like I was 'fumbling.' I guess I'll ask an Emacs user to demonstrate next time I meet one.

Exposé breaks down when you have a hundred buffers open, though. iswitchb cuts through that like a bullet through butter. The mouse is better for some things (especially relative/spatial stuff), and the keyboard for others, but interfaces that make you switch back and forth are clearly problematic. Rather than popping up dialog boxes and alerts, Emacs displays results (such as compiler output) in another buffer . If…

Thanks for the slime.mov link, I learned a couple of nice things about Emacs UI from that.

Re: GNU Emacs 23.2 released

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any change on 32-bit machines will require special CPU instructions, massive Lisp slowdowns, or massive integer math slowdowns. Considering you can't even buy a new 32-bit machine anymore, however, I don't really see this as a major problem.

>Considering you can't even buy a new 32-bit machine anymore, however Netbooks.

Most netbooks that have come out in the past 6 month have a 64-bit CPU. Only the old atom N2xx series is 32bit, and they are rapidly being phased out.
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