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GNU Emacs 23.2 released

permalink.gmane.org

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Re: GNU Emacs 23.2 released

#41

Post by DrSprout »

marcus wrote: post #7
[deleted] wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

Considering the fact that gmane.com isn't secured, both are useless from a security viewpoint. It would be easier to intercept the request http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.announce/17 and change the checksum that appears in the HTML, than to generate a new .tar.gz with the original checksum. If you can't trust that no one tampered with the checksum what good is it???

Quickly checking that you have the latest release in the absence of a good network connection.

Also, you can use mirrors without worrying about the mirrors being tampered with. Obviously if someone does a MITM on you against gmane you're in trouble.

Re: GNU Emacs 23.2 released

#42

Post by edanm »

Tycho wrote: post #21

Can someone very briefly explain the popularity of emacs and vim among programmer types? I'm aware that they're unix based text-editors with some degree of reprogrammability... but what's the big deal?

Their popularity comes from a few places:

1) Both vim and Emacs are really really good at basic text manipulation. This means for navigating files and entering/changing text, they're really quick (and don't require a mouse). Most other editors and IDEs are really bad at this.

2) They're amazingly customizable, which means whatever you want your editor to do, they can do.

3) People love messing around with them. I've been there, and I can tell you it's really fun. Finding all the amazing little things Emacs/vim know how to do, finding that extra few lines of code to make that make them do some neat trick, it's all very fun for people who love tinkering with their tools.

Disclaimer: I am not an active Emacs/vim user. But I have used both for long periods, and I respect the amazing things they can do and teach.

Re: GNU Emacs 23.2 released

#43

Post by nradov »

snorkel wrote: post #30
Tycho wrote: post #21

Can someone very briefly explain the popularity of emacs and vim among programmer types? I'm aware that they're unix based text-editors with some degree of reprogrammability... but what's the big deal?

It's a fair question. Emacs is one of few editors left that makes it possible to work on multiple files at once without taking your hands off the keyboard. No fumbling with the mouse. Watch someone who has mastered Emacs edit some code and you'll understand its appeal.

Huh? I can edit multiple files in Windows Notepad by pressing Alt+Tab. There are some nice features in Emacs but any editor allows working on multiple files without a mouse.

Re: GNU Emacs 23.2 released

#44

Post by sjs »

__david__ wrote: post #3

Mac OS X users can get a binary at http://emacsformacosx.com/ .

Wow. I was using CarbonEmacs 22.3 till now, so I'm not sure if it's the switch from CarbonEmacs or just v23, but startup is about 1-2 seconds now instead of 5-10 (2ghz Core Duo "Yonah"). Either way, I'm sold!

Re: GNU Emacs 23.2 released

#45

Post by ahn »

knweiss wrote: post #2

They are still using MD5 checksums?

They are using digital signatures(Chong Yidong's). The following files are both available from the same places as the tarballs:

emacs-23.2.tar.gz.sig emacs-23.2.tar.bz2.sig

Re: GNU Emacs 23.2 released

#46

Post by sjs »

nradov wrote: post #43
snorkel wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a fair question. Emacs is one of few editors left that makes it possible to work on multiple files at once without taking your hands off the keyboard. No fumbling with the mouse. Watch someone who has mastered Emacs edit some code and you'll understand its appeal.

Huh? I can edit multiple files in Windows Notepad by pressing Alt+Tab. There are some nice features in Emacs but any editor allows working on multiple files without a mouse.

That is technically true, but no one would actually be productive in that environment. Switching to the file you want is an O(n) operation with that workflow. That would drive anyone insane. In proper editors you can switch to the file you want by hitting a command and then typing a few chars of the file you want, then return.

Re: GNU Emacs 23.2 released

#48

Post by sjs »

Tycho wrote: post #40
snorkel wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a fair question. Emacs is one of few editors left that makes it possible to work on multiple files at once without taking your hands off the keyboard. No fumbling with the mouse. Watch someone who has mastered Emacs edit some code and you'll understand its appeal.

Hmm, I'm still not quite sure I 'get it.' For instance, your comment, 'no fumbling with the mouse' confuses me. I've always viewed the mouse as something that saves time, a shortcut to where you want to go or what you want to do. Especially on a Mac with non-maximized windows and Exposé mapped to a mouse button, I've never felt like I was 'fumbling.' I guess I'll ask an Emacs user to demonstrate next time I meet one.

There are operations where the mouse is more efficient than the keyboard and vice versa. Anyone who says otherwise is selling something.

That said, I often trade the time + context switch of moving to the mouse for a slightly less-efficient keyboard command. Overall it's probably a toss-up, I just like to stay near the home row.

My friend at work uses the mouse a lot and he's very good at using it to edit text.

Re: GNU Emacs 23.2 released

#49

Post by silentbicycle »

Tycho wrote: post #40
snorkel wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a fair question. Emacs is one of few editors left that makes it possible to work on multiple files at once without taking your hands off the keyboard. No fumbling with the mouse. Watch someone who has mastered Emacs edit some code and you'll understand its appeal.

Hmm, I'm still not quite sure I 'get it.' For instance, your comment, 'no fumbling with the mouse' confuses me. I've always viewed the mouse as something that saves time, a shortcut to where you want to go or what you want to do. Especially on a Mac with non-maximized windows and Exposé mapped to a mouse button, I've never felt like I was 'fumbling.' I guess I'll ask an Emacs user to demonstrate next time I meet one.

Exposé breaks down when you have a hundred buffers open, though. iswitchb cuts through that like a bullet through butter.

The mouse is better for some things (especially relative/spatial stuff), and the keyboard for others, but interfaces that make you switch back and forth are clearly problematic. Rather than popping up dialog boxes and alerts, Emacs displays results (such as compiler output) in another buffer. If it needs immediate input, it uses the minibuffer, a one-line buffer at the bottom of the screen.

In either case, its full text-editing functionality is available. You can run a directory browser/editor, a web browser, shell, interpreter, e-mail client, irc client, etc., and it's just another text window.

FWIW, Marco Baringer's SLIME screencast ( http://common-lisp.net/project/movies/movies/slime.mov ) is a pretty good example of proficient Emacs usage. That convinced me to try Emacs after using vi for several years.

Re: GNU Emacs 23.2 released

#50

Post by zokier »

Tycho wrote: post #21

Can someone very briefly explain the popularity of emacs and vim among programmer types? I'm aware that they're unix based text-editors with some degree of reprogrammability... but what's the big deal?

One nice point about vi(m) especially is the fact that its available almost everywhere as most unixy installations got one.

And a nice point of text-based programs generally is that they are easy to use over ssh allowing you to access your programming environment everywhere.

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