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Ask PG: What's the deal with search on HN?

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Re: Ask PG: What's the deal with search on HN?

#111

Post by jacquesm »

ledger123 wrote: post #109
Aegean wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any time I see something valuable on HN I quickly bookmark it so that I can read it later on without the hassle to search it. Search is a hassle on YC. I think we need a solution especially having been used to quick and effective google search for almost anything.

The easiest way to bookmark HN articles is to leave a comment.

That's not correct, the easiest way to bookmark is to upvote.

The articles then end under your 'saved' list (see your profile links) and you can find them again later.

These lists were limited in length until recently but it seems that that has now been fixed and you can go all the way back to when you joined HN.

Re: Ask PG: What's the deal with search on HN?

#112

Post by Goladus »

aneth wrote: post #69
pg wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see no reason why quality of content should preclude a decent search feature. Because attention is a finite resource. I can only spend attention on minor problems by taking it away from major ones. For example, right now, instead of wasting my time replying to this comment, I should be working on a new project we're launching soon. And I think I will, so forgive me if I drop out of this thread.

This is the craigslist logic. Sticky sites can convince themselves they can do no wrong because really they can't. Users would need a really strong reason to leave in droves (friendster). Even spam comments would not lose users quickly unless they were overwhelming because hacker news has a critical mass of people who would have an impossible time moving en masse. Just because people still use craigslist doesn't mean…

I think it's the craigslist logic, but I think you're missing the point about finite resources.

He's not saying that features shouldn't be added period, but that those features aren't worth even the minor resources required to add them.

Re: Ask PG: What's the deal with search on HN?

#114

Post by pg »

jules wrote: post #102
pg wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see no reason why quality of content should preclude a decent search feature. Because attention is a finite resource. I can only spend attention on minor problems by taking it away from major ones. For example, right now, instead of wasting my time replying to this comment, I should be working on a new project we're launching soon. And I think I will, so forgive me if I drop out of this thread.

Adding a google or searchyc search box is about the same amount of work as typing that comment, and several orders of magnitude more useful.

I had already added a link to Google site search. See the footer.

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1329380

Re: Ask PG: What's the deal with search on HN?

#115

Post by nostrademons »

antirez wrote: post #103
nostrademons wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's an opportunity cost for every feature added, and it's not just the time lost in implementation. More features = more code, which means more things you have to consider each time you add the next feature. More features = more interface complexity, which means additional things that your users have to consider each time they use the site. More complexity also tends to scare off new users. And more features = mo…

Ok, but honestly, do you think or not that 3 lines of html code should be added, submitting to searchyc.com? I think most of the users here strongly agree. This community is already pretty positively biased towards YC, note that there is no added value provided by HN technologically, it's just a matter of community. So it would be wise to avoid pushing hard the YC search startup if users don't like it. Also the "I'm…

I think that there should be a link to Search, either Google or SearchYC (I'm biased towards Google because I work there, but SearchYC is a good site too). Which there is, now.

I don't think there should be a search box. The canonical position to put a search box is either top center or top right of the page, but there's no room for it there - he'd have to either remove some of the top bar links or shift the whole page down. Shifting the page down is a mistake; part of the appeal of HN is that the focus is on content. And honestly, I find that all the links on the top row are more useful than search would be.

I agree that "I'm wasting my time" is the wrong attitude. He should have said nothing. It's ironic, though, that this sort of uncommunication is exactly what people lambast corporations for. A lot of corporate anti-patterns arise because they're the best response to an impossible tradeoff, not because corporations are stupid.

Re: Ask PG: What's the deal with search on HN?

#116

Post by jules »

pg wrote: post #114
jules wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adding a google or searchyc search box is about the same amount of work as typing that comment, and several orders of magnitude more useful.

I had already added a link to Google site search. See the footer. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1329380

That's not very useful. It takes less time to just go to Google and type it there.

- searchyc usually returns better results

- a search box is much more useful than a link

- it should be in the header, or at least not in a place that nobody ever looks at

But by now it's obvious that that's not going to happen.

Re: Ask PG: What's the deal with search on HN?

#117

Post by pg »

jules wrote: post #116
pg wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had already added a link to Google site search. See the footer. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1329380

That's not very useful. It takes less time to just go to Google and type it there. - searchyc usually returns better results - a search box is much more useful than a link - it should be in the header, or at least not in a place that nobody ever looks at But by now it's obvious that that's not going to happen.

But it's what users asked for. How could that be wrong?

(See how complicated such matters actually are? Nothing that goes on the front page of the site is ever a trivial matter.)

Re: Ask PG: What's the deal with search on HN?

#118

Post by jacquesm »

pg wrote: post #117
jules wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not very useful. It takes less time to just go to Google and type it there. - searchyc usually returns better results - a search box is much more useful than a link - it should be in the header, or at least not in a place that nobody ever looks at But by now it's obvious that that's not going to happen.

But it's what users asked for. How could that be wrong? (See how complicated such matters actually are? Nothing that goes on the front page of the site is ever a trivial matter.)

The link is an improvement over nothing, at a minimum it will cut down on the number of newbies posting 'how do I search' questions, at least, if they scan the footer.

Experience shows that this is probably not the case but then at least we can point them to the link without having to explain site prefixes, which is still a net gain.

If it were in the header (which is pretty crowded) it would be more useful, but I can see that that might lead to complications, if it were a miniature form in the header it would be better still, but I can see that that would really be much harder to integrate.

Searchyc.com probably can't handle the load if they are the 'sole provider of search' for HN, so it looks like that is not an option, when the HN robots.txt file locked out google because you had to crunch the numbers for the applications it was apparently touch-and-go on searchyc.

Now I'm really curious what your secret startup is that may solve the problem, and I hope they roll out soon.

Re: Ask PG: What's the deal with search on HN?

#119

Post by J3L2404 »

jacquesm wrote: post #118
pg wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it's what users asked for. How could that be wrong? (See how complicated such matters actually are? Nothing that goes on the front page of the site is ever a trivial matter.)

The link is an improvement over nothing, at a minimum it will cut down on the number of newbies posting 'how do I search' questions, at least, if they scan the footer. Experience shows that this is probably not the case but then at least we can point them to the link without having to explain site prefixes, which is still a net gain. If it were in the header (which is pretty crowded) it would be more useful, but I ca…

I haven't been here very long but I have never seen a post by PG with no upvotes. This thread has two - something is amiss.

Re: Ask PG: What's the deal with search on HN?

#120

Post by rooshdi »

jacquesm wrote: post #118
pg wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it's what users asked for. How could that be wrong? (See how complicated such matters actually are? Nothing that goes on the front page of the site is ever a trivial matter.)

The link is an improvement over nothing, at a minimum it will cut down on the number of newbies posting 'how do I search' questions, at least, if they scan the footer. Experience shows that this is probably not the case but then at least we can point them to the link without having to explain site prefixes, which is still a net gain. If it were in the header (which is pretty crowded) it would be more useful, but I ca…

I am currently part of a start-up, Favetop.com, which offers direct site searching through just the click of a site icon. I've found it to be quite convenient for searching sites directly and much better than constantly adding site prefixes or visiting the actual websites to search. You may want to give it a try and see if it helps you out.
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