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Study: carpooling apps could reduce traffic 3x in NYC

csail.mit.edu

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Re: Study: carpooling apps could reduce traffic 3x in NYC

#61

Post by droopyEyelids »

I'll continue my little crusade by reminding people that when talking about a reduction, you should use a fraction or percentage less than 100 for clarity.

For example, this article should have been titled "carpooling apps could reduce traffic by one third" or "reduce traffic to 1/3 of current levels"

"Reducing something by three times its original amount" is a difficult sentence to parse correctly, and the linguistically correct interpretation is almost certainly not what you mean.

Re: Study: carpooling apps could reduce traffic 3x in NYC

#63

Post by awjr »

Justsignedup wrote: post #59
awjr wrote: post #58

I find the focus on congestion within the transport space to be perplexing. I'm guessing it is to do with the visibility of congestion. Waze recently did a survey and identified the Netherlands as the best place to drive ( https://www.waze.com/driverindex ). The Netherlands is also the only western country with a negative obesity trend expected to hit 8% by 2030, currently at 10% vs the UK's 25%. The USA I believe is…

NYC's problem is also distance. Depending on where you're coming from biking could take 1.5-2hrs each way. I enjoy it but the problem is with extreme rising housing costs people are pushed further and further. Though to be honest, a SAFE biking lane system would be a much welcome gift in NYC. Currently in certain areas I have to work doubly hard to not get killed daily.

Yup and without protected bike lanes you only get those people 'brave enough' to venture out. To get people on situp and beg bikes (or ebikes) riding in normal clothes, you have to have visible end-to-end safe lanes.

Look at London. They removed two traffic lanes, installed wide cycle lanes and now move 5% more people through the space. 70% of traffci through Blackfriars is people cycling, mostly in day to day clothing.

Re: Study: carpooling apps could reduce traffic 3x in NYC

#64

Post by ufo »

chillingeffect wrote: post #8

This is great news, until we look at the open space and say, "Wow! Now we can fit so many more commuters on these streets." Nature abhors a vacuum. Not to denigrate the science, I respect the math greatly. It's just that NYC culture is about trying to cram the most things in one place. Few open resources like Central Park remain so very long.

Its not just about NYC. The vacuum problem is a real issue for congestion. During peak hours there are plenty of people with cars that avoid the road due to traffic but would jump right in if the roads were less congested. So increased supply in road space (due to building new roads or this hypothetical carpooling scheme) is immediately met by additional driver demand and congestion quickly returns to where it was before.

Re: Study: carpooling apps could reduce traffic 3x in NYC

#65

Post by Retric »

rhino369 wrote: post #33
chongli wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? Americans don't have a cultural aversion to using world class public transit when in a place like Tokyo. They have a cultural aversion to altering their cities in the radical ways that'd be necessary to build a functional public transit. They call this NIMBY.

It's not really even cultural. It is a socio-economic and technological issue. Every rich country that settled new territory or experienced massive growth after the invention of the car has cities that are spread out. Europe was already developed pre-car. Asia had huge population growth when their people generally couldn't afford cars. This is why US cities that were big before the Model T have a dense core with dece…

DC in the US is a solid counter example as low density city older than the car. Density is based on a huge range of factors with for example geography playing a significant role. Another huge factor is they type of industry. Garment factory's for example have historically had very high density's where Iron Works are much lower density.

Re: Study: carpooling apps could reduce traffic 3x in NYC

#66

Post by awjr »

source99 wrote: post #60
awjr wrote: post #58

I find the focus on congestion within the transport space to be perplexing. I'm guessing it is to do with the visibility of congestion. Waze recently did a survey and identified the Netherlands as the best place to drive ( https://www.waze.com/driverindex ). The Netherlands is also the only western country with a negative obesity trend expected to hit 8% by 2030, currently at 10% vs the UK's 25%. The USA I believe is…

Much of the academic research I have read (Check out Good Calories, Bad Calories by Gary Taubes) shows the exact opposite to be true. Our diets accounts for dramatically much higher cause of obesity than our environment and specifically cars.

I'm just going to point at the Netherlands their obesity rate of 10%. They have designed in an hour or more of exercise per day into just getting around. In the UK some cities have stats where people are known to just do 20 minutes of walking exercise per year.

Re: Study: carpooling apps could reduce traffic 3x in NYC

#67

Post by haberman »

guessmyname wrote: post #56
CodeSheikh wrote: post #37

New York City includes Brooklyn, Queens, Bronx and Staten Island as well. Misleading title and perhaps incomplete study if footprint of cabs is not included from those remaining boroughs in this study. If you live in Manhattan, then you don't use cabs as much within Manhattan because subways cover Manhattan pretty well and travel times in cabs are hellish comparing to subway commute. You often use cabs when you commu…

I didn't know how big New York City was until I went from Central Park (North side) to the Brooklyn Botanic Garden... walking... never again!

Try Pelham Bay Park (Bronx) to Conference House Park (Staten Island): 35 miles, 10 hours walking! Or Inwood Hill Park (Manhattan) to Rockaway Park (Queens): 25 miles, 8 hours walking.

Re: Study: carpooling apps could reduce traffic 3x in NYC

#68

Post by ceras »

source99 wrote: post #60
awjr wrote: post #58

I find the focus on congestion within the transport space to be perplexing. I'm guessing it is to do with the visibility of congestion. Waze recently did a survey and identified the Netherlands as the best place to drive ( https://www.waze.com/driverindex ). The Netherlands is also the only western country with a negative obesity trend expected to hit 8% by 2030, currently at 10% vs the UK's 25%. The USA I believe is…

Much of the academic research I have read (Check out Good Calories, Bad Calories by Gary Taubes) shows the exact opposite to be true. Our diets accounts for dramatically much higher cause of obesity than our environment and specifically cars.

Diet definitely has a bigger impact than exercise, but isn't there still a correlation between more urban areas and lower obesity even when controlling for poverty?

There may be other factors to urban, non-car-based living besides the extra physical activity that encourages lower weight. It's maybe as simple as without a car you can't go to Costco and stock up on huge sacks of unhealthy foods in one go -- beats me, I'd be interested to learn more.

Re: Study: carpooling apps could reduce traffic 3x in NYC

#69

Post by miiiiiike »

guessmyname wrote: post #56
CodeSheikh wrote: post #37

New York City includes Brooklyn, Queens, Bronx and Staten Island as well. Misleading title and perhaps incomplete study if footprint of cabs is not included from those remaining boroughs in this study. If you live in Manhattan, then you don't use cabs as much within Manhattan because subways cover Manhattan pretty well and travel times in cabs are hellish comparing to subway commute. You often use cabs when you commu…

I didn't know how big New York City was until I went from Central Park (North side) to the Brooklyn Botanic Garden... walking... never again!

I had the opposite experience! My girlfriend and I walked from the Bronx to Battery Park, it was great. We saw the neighborhoods change from block to block, bought bootlegged DVDs from a sweet old lady, and even ran into Robert Krulwich outside of Central Park. If you have 10 hours it's worth it.

Re: Study: carpooling apps could reduce traffic 3x in NYC

#70

Post by Retric »

Justsignedup wrote: post #59
awjr wrote: post #58

I find the focus on congestion within the transport space to be perplexing. I'm guessing it is to do with the visibility of congestion. Waze recently did a survey and identified the Netherlands as the best place to drive ( https://www.waze.com/driverindex ). The Netherlands is also the only western country with a negative obesity trend expected to hit 8% by 2030, currently at 10% vs the UK's 25%. The USA I believe is…

NYC's problem is also distance. Depending on where you're coming from biking could take 1.5-2hrs each way. I enjoy it but the problem is with extreme rising housing costs people are pushed further and further. Though to be honest, a SAFE biking lane system would be a much welcome gift in NYC. Currently in certain areas I have to work doubly hard to not get killed daily.

Which is really a function of rent control. NYC heavily subsidizes a retired population while discouraging ultra high density development. Further, after changing jobs it's often better not to move.

So, you sacrifice density on people who don't have a economic incentive for living in the city, discourage short commutes, and discourages increasing density.

ED: Yes, that includes Rent Stabilized.

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