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Lenovo ThinkPad T460 – A Good Linux Laptop for Development

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Re: Lenovo ThinkPad T460 – A Good Linux Laptop for Development

#311

Post by mwfunk »

ronjouch wrote: post #239
UnoriginalGuy wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> FUD. That's a very disrespectful way of starting a post. In particular as you conclude that you largely agree with them. So which is it, they're spreading "Fear, uncertainty and doubt" or they're right? In either case, seems unconstructive.

> So which is it, they're spreading "Fear, uncertainty and doubt" or they're right? They're spreading the FUD that Linux laptop hardware support is frustrating, no questions asked. It's FUD because it's a fear-inducing oversimplification of the current state of things, which is that Linux laptop hardware support is enjoyable -if you do your homework- .

It's not FUD by definition because they are literally talking about their personal experiences. FUD is a form of astroturfing. FUD is knowingly and intentionally dishonest, by definition. If you're going to immediately sink to that level, why bother with FUD accusations- just go full Slashdot and accuse them of shilling for some company you don't like because of some random tribal affiliation.

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad T460 – A Good Linux Laptop for Development

#312

Post by keypress »

mangecoeur wrote: post #190

As an ex-linux user and current mac user, I'm still frustrated by linux laptop hardware support. Ethernet ports that need to be re-plugged, suspend-to-disk not working... lots of glitches things that were already annoying 6-7 years ago but now are hard to justify compared with the polish you can expect from other systems. I could never go back from my macbook because I need everything to just work - no glitchy touchp…

Witnessed both a mac and windows machine having software/networking glitches, both with non-esoteric hardware pretty much at factory settings. I wish it was a case of use just fire up and forget, but sadly 'bugs' plague all platforms.

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad T460 – A Good Linux Laptop for Development

#313

Post by ianamartin »

I wish there were some specific rules on the internet for discussing hardware. Things just always have a way of breaking down into practically religious points of view.

I'm going to toss a couple of things out there:

1. If you are saying that literally nothing works, everything is awful, and that computer X is just complete garbage, then a few things pop into my head:

a) I start wondering if maybe you are just bad at computers, b) I suspect that you are probably talking about a computer your work bought for you that isn't your preferred OS, and c) I decide that you really aren't contributing anything useful to the conversation.

2. By the same token, when I see people writing that everything works flawlessly I think a couple of things as well:

a) you probably aren't doing anything that interesting with it, b) you are talking about a machine you are personally invested in rather than one bought for you by your work, and c) you really aren't adding anything useful to the conversation.

Here's the bottom line, from my point of view--as well as my point of view:

I spent my own money on and use two mac laptops, a windows laptop, and a Linux desktop.

From work, I have a mac laptop and a windows laptop, and a windows desktop.

All of these computers have benefits and drawbacks. The baseline of shit that just needs to work actually works on all of them, most of the time. Weird things go wrong from time to time. I find the Linux desktop to be more fiddly than the other machines at times, but not so much that it pisses me off more than apt-get makes me happy.

The windows machines are harder to get set up properly than the macs for working with dynamic languages, but they are the best choice for working on the Microsoft dev stack. Duh.

The macs have some real problems as well for certain parts of statistical work. Homebrew + anaconda + Xcode-select just doesn't get the job done far too often. And deving on mac + deploying to Debian or Ubuntu can be a bunch of not-fun.

Not a one of these machines is perfect or flawless in any way, but any one of them would be acceptable for a daily driver work box.

To the people who are speaking about specific issues on specific machines, I greatly appreciate that. To the top and bottom 10% who are saying everything/nothing works, you really aren't helping much here, and I find your opinions suspiciously biased.

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad T460 – A Good Linux Laptop for Development

#314

Post by [deleted] »

gnuvince wrote: post #219
dorfsmay wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people who buy Thikpads, myself included, are doing so mainly for the track point, which the XPS doesn't have.

I prefer using a Trackpad, however the Thinkpads have a middle button, which I use all the time in Linux.

[deleted]

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad T460 – A Good Linux Laptop for Development

#315

Post by ianamartin »

sytelus wrote: post #308

I'm using Lenovo P50 for Linux development with duel boot to Windows. The trick to get duel boot right is to have two SSDs and install each OS on its own SSD. P50 supports two SSDs + 1 spinning drive. Besides this, its very likely only laptop with 64GB option and 4K display with descret NVidia GPU with 4GB memory so you can even do local deep learning!

Thank you for this. I think this is very likely to be my next hardware purchase. Didn't know such a thing existed yet.

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad T460 – A Good Linux Laptop for Development

#316

Post by dajohnson89 »

dogismycopilot wrote: post #297
dajohnson89 wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. I pay extra $$ for system 76 machines for just this reason. Things just work.

I haven't found a model from system 76 that has a display more than 1080x1920, but I really want to support them.

To be fair, I've only bought their Meerkat (like a Mac Mini). I looked at their laptop offerings, but couldn't justify the high price for underwhelming specs. I wound up giving up and just buying a $200 Chromebook.

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad T460 – A Good Linux Laptop for Development

#317

Post by chrizel »

therealmarv wrote: post #234
_0w8t wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience Linux on Mac when the hardware is supported brings overall better experience for development than Mac OS. USB-to-anything dongles that just work without any driver installation, much better behaviour under memory pressure, container technologies that allows to run not-so-trusted software without overhead of VM, fancy networking setups for stimulating production setups. For that I tolerate ocasional (…

About drivers: You are right... but things get a lot lot more messy if your specific USB driver is not maintained in the Linux Kernel. I have the opposite experience with memory pressure (speaking only about desktop here). macOS (& Windows) do memory compression by default and most of Linuxes I know don't do that by default. I also have the feeling that at least desktop Linux get's incredible slow when you run out of…

I installed Docker today on a fresh macOS installation and was very delighted to find out that VirtualBox is no longer required. The latest official Docker version for Mac uses HyperKit, also based on xhyve.

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad T460 – A Good Linux Laptop for Development

#318

Post by ianamartin »

s_kilk wrote: post #266
forgotpwtomain wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> dodgy networking Had recurring wifi issues on a Macbook Pro as well (as did many of my co-workers)... Not saying it's great on Linux but I would hardly call the alternatives much better...

Same, after about 48 hours uptime my MacBook will start dropping network connection every few minutes. This can only be cured by a full reboot. The MacBook also regularly (at least once per week) drops all input devices (including built in keyboard and trackpad), which can only be cured by a hard power-strangle and reboot. My colleagues experience the same problems too. Basically, the ultra-reliable Mac is a myth, it…

I have this issue with my 11" MacBook Air as well as my 15" MacBook Pro from work. I do not have the issue with my personal MacBook Pro, which is identical hardware configuration and model to my work machine. All are running the same version of macOS. It's honestly a kind of a mystery to me.

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad T460 – A Good Linux Laptop for Development

#319

Post by Twirrim »

phaedrix wrote: post #285
mangecoeur wrote: post #190

As an ex-linux user and current mac user, I'm still frustrated by linux laptop hardware support. Ethernet ports that need to be re-plugged, suspend-to-disk not working... lots of glitches things that were already annoying 6-7 years ago but now are hard to justify compared with the polish you can expect from other systems. I could never go back from my macbook because I need everything to just work - no glitchy touchp…

I recently switched back to Linux (ThinkPad/Arch/Kernel4.8) after 5 years using a Macbook Pro (after using linux for 5 years previously). Linux hardware support has become much better without a doubt. However just in the last couple days I've had the following sporadic issues: * External usb keyboard/mouse simply wouldn't work (and doesn't show up in lsusb). Restart fixed. * If left overnight, occasionally won't wake…

>* Macbook takes relatively forever to come back from sleep; thinkpad is practically immediate.

Waking up from sleep has been nice and fast in Linux for a while, but I have to say that regardless of all the frustrations I've found using OS X over the last year, waking from sleep isn't one of them. It has been nice and fast every time.

>* Macbook wireless constantly has issues connecting, to the point of having to turn off wireless and back on multiple times (this occurs often).

I've found wireless to be a really bizarre experience on OS X. If there are two networks it can connect to in range, it doesn't seem to pay much attention to the strength of the signal, and it always seems to overstate how strong the signal is (that may feed into the former).

I can be sitting in the same room as another wireless endpoint, and it'll choose the one furthest away from it, where wireless strength is pretty low, and constantly suffer communication problems. I've made it a point now to go check which wifi it has connected to.

Re: Lenovo ThinkPad T460 – A Good Linux Laptop for Development

#320

Post by Twirrim »

runn1ng wrote: post #271
mangecoeur wrote: post #190

As an ex-linux user and current mac user, I'm still frustrated by linux laptop hardware support. Ethernet ports that need to be re-plugged, suspend-to-disk not working... lots of glitches things that were already annoying 6-7 years ago but now are hard to justify compared with the polish you can expect from other systems. I could never go back from my macbook because I need everything to just work - no glitchy touchp…

I still run Linux despite all the challenges and all the hardware constantly breaking and working just-not-right, because I just love the openness and I don't understand how can Apple (and windows) users survive without "apt-get". Homebrew is a poor substitute for me. I am basically using linux just for apt-get, the configurability and the ability to test server-side software in the same-ish environment as it will ac…

I run linux mostly because I want to be able to use the machine in whatever way I like. MacOS is designed around "You use it this way", and tries to keep you away from the warts by kind-of enforcing that position.

One of the most ridiculous examples of "You must do it our way" is the inability to remap mouse buttons (or even support buttons on a mouse with more than left, right and scroll.) MacOS would rather you use gestures on the magic mouse (that thing is an ergonomic nightmare). To be able to support extra buttons, you have to pay for software from the app store, e.g. USB Overdrive.

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