$2T in Proceeds of Corruption Removed from China and Taken to US, AUS, CAN, NL • Hacker News Board

Re: $2T in Proceeds of Corruption Removed from China and Taken to US, AUS, CAN, NL

#141

Post by webmaven » Mon, Jan 02, 2017, 1:36 PM UTC

lazaroclapp wrote: post #83

jmspring wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Those policies are in place because planning makes sense. Not everywhere should be tear down and build up in all conditions. How about the French quarter of New Orleans or historic districts of other cities? This argument always shows up here and is idealistic bs.

Sure. But historic districts are not the majority of zoned land in any city. I mean, the imperial palace gardens remain in the middle of super-dense super-expensive central Tokyo, as do many other historic landmarks and districts in dense cities (and non-historical but significant landmarks too: nobody is removing central park from NYC either). Actually, an even stronger argument is that, well, cities need more than…

> Hell, you can tax the developers of the new buildings to front most of the public infrastructure upgrade costs

There are a couple of ways this can fail as a result of various loopholes, but it is, in general, a good approach.

Further, you can offer developers tax credits for densifying infill development since more of the infrastructure is already in place.

Re: $2T in Proceeds of Corruption Removed from China and Taken to US, AUS, CAN, NL

#142

Post by webmaven » Mon, Jan 02, 2017, 1:55 PM UTC

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #90

jmspring wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are groups of people that seem to think that sacrificing local experience should be shoved aside solely on the basis to add more Housing should be the most important thing.

And it really sucks when more housing is added only to be used as Chinese investments while they sit empty not being used or rented out.

Well, it doesn't play out negatively in every city. The proliferating loft towers in Las Vegas don't really affect the housing stock available to local residents (most of which ranges from single family detached homes to 2-floor apartment complexes), and the fact that the lofts stand empty most of the time (it isn't just foreign investors, there are also snowbirds and empty-nesters buying a vacation home) means that they don't strain the local infrastructure much.

Re: $2T in Proceeds of Corruption Removed from China and Taken to US, AUS, CAN, NL

#143

Post by webmaven » Mon, Jan 02, 2017, 2:05 PM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #139

forgetsusername wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My return on the property is driven from the $1 million basis, and I get to keep all of it despite not having much of an equity stake in the property And if that property falls to $900,000? Now you owe $1 million on a home worth less; literally throwing away $100,000.

You don't actually lose anything until you sell. A paper loss is a different thing. It has plusses and minuses.

If you're willing to employ a "buy and hold" strategy for property to ride out the bottom of the RE market, you should be able to do it just as well with a diversified investment portfolio.

Re: $2T in Proceeds of Corruption Removed from China and Taken to US, AUS, CAN, NL

#144

Post by mathattack » Mon, Jan 02, 2017, 2:15 PM UTC

neurostimulant wrote: post #112

mathattack wrote: post #77

Interesting about this on a per-capita basis. Is ~$2K per citizen a lot? I wonder what comparable #s for the US and Russia are. (Note that with 16,000-18,000 people doing the moving, it's very large per intermediary)

Average annual household income in China is around $10k, so yeah, $2k is quite a lot.

The numbers are on a cumulative basis though. So $200 per person per year sounds less. It's hard to tell without seeing similar for other countries. I assume Russia is higher. And how do you measure corruption in government contracts in the US?

Re: $2T in Proceeds of Corruption Removed from China and Taken to US, AUS, CAN, NL

#145

Post by webmaven » Mon, Jan 02, 2017, 2:25 PM UTC

sytelus wrote: post #109

Simple question: when some invests his corruption money in US, doesn't it automatically become "public" and hence traceable? For example, if you buy a house for X dollars in US then shouldn't Chinese government be able to easily trace you down? My understanding was that so called "black" money stays black only as long as you use it in form of cash, not investments.

> when some invests his corruption money in US, doesn't it automatically become "public" and hence traceable?

Keep in mind that these RE investments are also a form of "rainy day" bolthole, ie. if you have to flee on short notice you land in SF, pick up the documents for the new identity you set up a few years ago, and move into one of the places you now own (none of which are traceable to your original identity).

The fact that your new identity is now "on the books" is a feature, not a bug.

Re: $2T in Proceeds of Corruption Removed from China and Taken to US, AUS, CAN, NL

#146

Post by jussij » Mon, Jan 02, 2017, 2:25 PM UTC

misja111 wrote: post #115

cmurf wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK but not all asset prices are going up, it's pretty much just real estate and in particular residential real estate. Commericial real estate is doing well, but it's lagging compared to residential. Bank loans are roughly 1/3 real estate mortgages, 1/3 commercial, and 1/3 consumer. QE affects all of these. So why is QE not resulting in growth elsewhere in the economy, being narrowly focused on real estate mortgages?

QE is not resulting in enough growth in the Western world, because there are just not enough profitable businesses for investors to pour their cheap money into. Supplying cheap money is only one half of the equation to get investors to sponsor businesses: the other half that is needed is businesses with profitable business plans. And there the Western world has a problem: globalisation is moving mainstream business a…

QE is not resulting in enough growth in the Western world, because there are just not enough profitable businesses for investors to pour their cheap money into.

The central bankers created QE as a way to add liquidity into the markets to allow banks to lend, to allow small businesses to grow, to help economies to generate growth.

Unfortunately that money was lent to the big bankers and they realized they could take that money and make much easier profits.

The carry trade has been going on for decades and no one has taken any steps to stop it.

It is very easy to for institutes with big wallets, to borrow large amounts of money from central banks only to take advantage of countries with an interest rate differentials.

Then take a look at how JPMorgan Chase, after loosing billions on hedge positions, they took a US government bale out with the promise not to go back to their bad old ways of gambling with hedge positions.

They took the government money and sure enough put it all back on the table betting red, only find it came up black:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-20/jp-morgan-fined-920-mi...

A broken promise to the US people with lots of money lost and as always no consequences for those who took the money on false pretenses.

In reality I can see the sense of the bet. Take someone else's money and if you lose, the billions lost will be covered by someone else.

Re: $2T in Proceeds of Corruption Removed from China and Taken to US, AUS, CAN, NL

#147

Post by webmaven » Mon, Jan 02, 2017, 2:28 PM UTC

eternalban wrote: post #7

kspaans wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article: China also has something called “grey” income, which means income earned (or acquired off the books) in China that is not reported on income taxes and that is held by its richest families. If the money can be laundered by buying a house overseas, grey becomes green!

How is it "held"? I've seen reports of raids where they find houses stuffed full of cash, but how do you get $2T in cash to Canada? At some point this is getting converted to electronic funds and that is where the "laundering" is happening. As to why they are buying hard assets in Anglo-sphere, possibly because they are worried that the said Anglos may pull the plug on the fiat currency in a Great Reset at some point…

> how do you get $2T in cash to Canada?

Shipping containers?

Re: $2T in Proceeds of Corruption Removed from China and Taken to US, AUS, CAN, NL

#148

Post by rbg246 » Mon, Jan 02, 2017, 2:50 PM UTC

adaml_623 wrote: post #125

rbg246 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry to rain on your parade but Australia has had decent levels of GDP growth for the past decade. It hasn't been the lost decade that some OECD countries has experienced. Australia has experienced a mining boom not unlike Canada.

I don't think you've actually done your research. I can see lower than average GDP growth which is what the OP said. [0] In addition it's undeniable that the RBA has been cutting the cash rate and that just like the OP said a rise in the cash rate might pop the bubble. [1] I don't know the sources of your opinions/information but you should consider whether they are slightly biased for some reason. [0] - http://www.t…

The comment I was replying to was saying Australia's GDP growth was comparable to the rest of the world, I said it was not. Your first source shows a consistent 2 - 2.5 growth rate except the last two where one was 3 and the other 1.8, majority of OECD countries would be very happy with that sort of growth.

Re: $2T in Proceeds of Corruption Removed from China and Taken to US, AUS, CAN, NL

#149

Post by angry_octet » Mon, Jan 02, 2017, 4:08 PM UTC

wiz21c wrote: post #135

aianus wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. I did the math when I rented an apartment in downtown Toronto and the rent was less than mortgage interest + condo fees + property tax + maintenance.

But once you have completely bought your house/apartment, you have that warm comforting feeling that it's yours. Nobody will get you out to puts in his children, nobody will raise the rent because, you know, he has no choice, etc. But in the case of a house, you'll have to repair it as times goes by and that can be quite expensive. But the one who rents it to you would have to do it as well, so, buying a house just m…

In Australia you are often treated poorly as a tenant. Rent increases every 6 months, 60 day eviction notice if the landlord wants to do anything (sell, paint the walls, let their cousin stay there, consider selling it...). You can't do any modifications or get longer than a 12 month lease.

Also, there is a collective paranoia about missing out, of tumbling off the 'property ladder' and neither you or your children ever escaping wage slave poverty.

Re: $2T in Proceeds of Corruption Removed from China and Taken to US, AUS, CAN, NL

#150

Post by angry_octet » Mon, Jan 02, 2017, 4:14 PM UTC

semi-extrinsic wrote: post #68

sanswork wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not uncommon for it to be better financially to always rent and just invest the difference between rent and mortgage+maintenance+taxes. With interest first mortgages as they are it is generally a long time before you earn any equity at all.

I guess it depends heavily on the location's property market and the regional tax rules. E.g. here in Norway, good tax breaks for owning property means we're currently paying $1k/month on mortgage+maintenance+taxes, but renting the same apartment costs 50% more. It also means you essentially can't rent anything bigger than a 2 bedroom apartment; bigger units make so much more financial sense to own (easily $1k/month…

In other economies that would severely punished poor people, but I'm guessing there is sufficient social housing. It still seems like it would lead to problems though.