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From Secretary to Software Developer: The Hard Way

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Re: From Secretary to Software Developer: The Hard Way

#131

Post by marktangotango »

denisenepraunig wrote: post #67
dom0 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually like seeing my job as a craftsmanship, because (at least in my native language) there is a certain "honour of doing good work" connected to it. Also, no shame to work a trade job at all. Not sure where people get that idea?!

I honour every trade job! And as an office worker (secretary/ developer) I really miss to create something physical or with my hands. I started to create my own feminine developer t-shirts (NERDpraunig.com), something I can touch and wear. I don't care which profession someone chooses and whether it is more brain or more physical work.

Nice in context link drop :) Consider adding a link to the medium article (aka a blurb at the bottom "visit the authors site at ...") to generate some traffic.

http://nerdpraunig.com

Re: From Secretary to Software Developer: The Hard Way

#132

Post by hash-set »

kirse wrote: post #88
ChuckMcM wrote: post #81

The thing that struck me is "anyone who is fascinated by computers and spends all their free time playing with them can be a developer." Back before developers were perceived as 'rich' and 'pampered' there were people who were fascinated by computers and spent all their time playing with them and were called 'nerds.' Then it became "cool" to be a developer or "you can get rich as a developer at a startup!" and then y…

they are often just working a day job. I used to be snooty about this too until I had a member join one of my teams who is exactly this type of person... Treats it like a day job, and absolutely rips through well-defined coding tasks as long as I do the general solution-finding and lay the architectural groundwork ahead of time. They don't burn out either, because it's just work to them and they take regular vacation…

Everyone I know that "treats it like a day job" falls down on keeping their skills up to date. This is a tough field and to do it well, you are studying a lot.

Re: From Secretary to Software Developer: The Hard Way

#133

Post by hash-set »

rfrey wrote: post #15
Omnius wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most trades can be taught to anyone i think programming requires a certain kind of mind set to begin with or but another way an already analytical thought process. It's why a lot of grads that jumped into the field to make tons of money have trouble with the actual work. I am not saying it requires a special snow flake but it does require abstract thinking and that can't be taught to everyone.

"Most trades can be taught to anyone" This makes me suspect you haven't had much exposure to trades. Getting good... really good... at welding, or cabinetry, or stairbuilding, takes at least as much dedication and skill as getting good at programming.

I disagree. There are crafts people who do awesome woodwork, but woodworking is a hell of a lot easier to learn that software development. Also, my dad was a welder, a very good one, but most of the welders he worked with were drunk fools and did 'acceptable' enough work. If you have half a brain you can learn to weld and even fabricate metals. I've been in that world and I know exactly how smart those people all are (hint: most dropped out of high school).

Re: From Secretary to Software Developer: The Hard Way

#134

Post by jressey »

throwaway99187 wrote: post #119
kirse wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they are often just working a day job. I used to be snooty about this too until I had a member join one of my teams who is exactly this type of person... Treats it like a day job, and absolutely rips through well-defined coding tasks as long as I do the general solution-finding and lay the architectural groundwork ahead of time. They don't burn out either, because it's just work to them and they take regular vacation…

I've never seen a good architecture that wasn't largely by the single individual who started and initially wrote a project.

One man writes a novel. One man writes a symphony. It is essential that one man make a film. -Kubrick

I often use this argument in situations where people are discussing system architecture.

Re: From Secretary to Software Developer: The Hard Way

#135

Post by relics443 »

jon-wood wrote: post #115
relics443 wrote: post #63

TL;DR there are a lot of incompetent developers out there. This isn't a comment about the author, as much as it's about something she said. "Today you can take a lot of programming and Computer Sciences courses online. Everyone can be developer! There are also a lot of developer bootcamps: within 8–12 weeks you can become a developer." This is a very dangerous line of thinking. Some people have convinced themselves t…

Not everyone needs to be a senior developer on day one. I know I've got plenty of work which isn't making the best use of my skills but still needs doing, so the next hire will probably be a bootcamp graduate who we can slowly train up, and who will find the grunt work interesting while we do. We get the easy stuff done for less, and they get to develop their career, which seems like a pretty good deal to me.

I'd be particularly selective. The ability to do grunt work is not indicative of the ability to blossom into a full fledged dev.

Re: From Secretary to Software Developer: The Hard Way

#136

Post by relics443 »

type0 wrote: post #112
relics443 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a graduate degree in CS. I'm well versed in most aspects of the field. I pride myself on writing clean, efficient code, and architecting correctly. I also have a learning disability (dyscalculia) which makes certain things difficult (discrete math, calculus, etc...). The fact that CS is based on mathematic principles does not make it a math degree (although that did make things challenging for me at times).

> The fact that CS is based on mathematic principles does not make it a math degree (although that did make things challenging for me at times). But in order for it to be a useful degree you need to have math as supporting subject. This is the same as if you want to be molecular biologist you need to know a few semesters worth of chemistry otherwise you'd be given endless hard time, which you seem to understand. I st…

"But in order for it to be a useful degree you need to have math as supporting subject."

My university allowed me to make a custom degree that did not include calculus and didn't take my discrete math grade into account. I'm not what you would call "well-versed" in anything math related. I understand the theory for a few things I've looked into but that's as far as it goes.

In all of my career (~10 years) I've never once found myself at a disadvantage because of it, and it's never held me back from doing or understanding something.

I'm sure there are some areas of the field I'll have difficulty with (low level graphics, etc..), but even then I find that with enough hard work and an alternative approach to understanding the problem I can get things done.

Re: From Secretary to Software Developer: The Hard Way

#137

Post by justacat »

farhannyc wrote: post #84

I don't think you can be a developer in 8 - 12 weeks, as mentioned in this article. Software Development is a skill as much as anything else, and there is no time frame. All you can use to assure yourself is if you have practice, and the confidence in yourself by that practice. For some people that confidence comes after a year, maybe even two years. But then again, that confidence can even come in 2 months.

Yea, I went to one of these years ago just when they were starting up. A couple of the students were very impressive at the end of the 12 weeks, but I was not. It is a lot of information at an extraordinary pace. I found that I could not sustain more than 11-12 hours a day of work, taking some of Saturday and all of Sunday off. I had no social life during this period outside of the camp, but did get an beginner level job offered to me at the end of it. It still took years before I felt comfortable saying that I was a developer.

Re: From Secretary to Software Developer: The Hard Way

#138

Post by sanderjd »

mi100hael wrote: post #2

Another good example of someone learning to program on their own because they wanted to and then leveraging that experience to get a job doing it professionally. The big secret to learning to program is that there is no big secret. It's basically a glorified trade job and everyone already has the tools in front of them.

Honest question: What is the difference between a trade job and a profession, and why is software development more similar to the former than the latter?

Re: From Secretary to Software Developer: The Hard Way

#139

Post by SapphireSun »

greggyb wrote: post #126
SapphireSun wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, maybe the economy as a whole does better if workers can easily retrain, which would be a net gain for the tax base, so it's not really as clear as that. Explicit tax costs aren't the same as actual costs. ;) For instance, if a worker loses their job and wants to retrain, one policy (that of the united states) forces them at the worst possible time to take on additional debt, and one (that of austria) socia…

Again, I made no qualitative statement about whether the system is good or bad. I merely pointed out that there are costs. You are arguing that the costs are worth it. Great. I don't want to have that conversation online again. You have acknowledged that there are costs. We are in agreement.

I understand, but I don't think anyone would deny that, there are costs everywhere. The more useful discussion is to understand the balance of costs and benefits, but I accept that you're tired of having the same conversation over and over again.

Re: From Secretary to Software Developer: The Hard Way

#140

Post by voidr »

relics443 wrote: post #63

TL;DR there are a lot of incompetent developers out there. This isn't a comment about the author, as much as it's about something she said. "Today you can take a lot of programming and Computer Sciences courses online. Everyone can be developer! There are also a lot of developer bootcamps: within 8–12 weeks you can become a developer." This is a very dangerous line of thinking. Some people have convinced themselves t…

It's posted on a what looks to be an feminist blog, I don't think they care too much about quality.

I also don't think you much chance, to become a good developer if you are not practicing it at a younger age. It's just like with sports and languages.

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