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From Secretary to Software Developer: The Hard Way

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Re: From Secretary to Software Developer: The Hard Way

#81

Post by ChuckMcM »

The thing that struck me is "anyone who is fascinated by computers and spends all their free time playing with them can be a developer."

Back before developers were perceived as 'rich' and 'pampered' there were people who were fascinated by computers and spent all their time playing with them and were called 'nerds.' Then it became "cool" to be a developer or "you can get rich as a developer at a startup!" and then you get people who don't care at all about computers and really never have, working as developers.

My litmus test is often to ask someone when they show me a solution, "what other solutions did you consider?" If they have wandered around looking at different ways to attack the problem they are more typically 'nerd' type developers, if their response is "none, this works so I went with it, moving on." they are often just working a day job. Watching the two types of people from the late 90's to today, the people in it for the money burn out much more frequently.

Re: From Secretary to Software Developer: The Hard Way

#82

Post by jrm2k6 »

disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #72
jrm2k6 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly how I reacted when reading that line. Everybody can become a developer, yes. Everybody can become a good developer quickly, most likely not, and that applies also to people coming out with a formal education in CS, not only bootcampers. I don't understand fully why so many people think that about coding, but not about other fields, like cooking/building/who knows.

Money.

Could explain it. I think also easy access to information/tutorials/affordability for self-learning?

Re: From Secretary to Software Developer: The Hard Way

#83

Post by jrm2k6 »

throwawasiudy wrote: post #76
relics443 wrote: post #63

TL;DR there are a lot of incompetent developers out there. This isn't a comment about the author, as much as it's about something she said. "Today you can take a lot of programming and Computer Sciences courses online. Everyone can be developer! There are also a lot of developer bootcamps: within 8–12 weeks you can become a developer." This is a very dangerous line of thinking. Some people have convinced themselves t…

Most, not all, but most of the good developers I've known learned to code when they were teens. CS skills have been discounted endlessly compared to other engineering professions solely because it doesn't cost anything to learn. Other forms of engineering cost a lot of money to learn beyond the knowledge required for the job. That doesn't mean software dev is any easier. And, it's great that CS has such a low barrier…

Canada is actually the closest to having an "accreditation" for Computer Engineering if I remember correctly. I have never interviewed in Canada so I cannot tell if your school/degree matters that much, but not everybody can consider themselves software/computer engineer if they don't have the degree going with it. Once again, I don't know how this is in practice.

Re: From Secretary to Software Developer: The Hard Way

#84

Post by farhannyc »

I don't think you can be a developer in 8 - 12 weeks, as mentioned in this article. Software Development is a skill as much as anything else, and there is no time frame. All you can use to assure yourself is if you have practice, and the confidence in yourself by that practice. For some people that confidence comes after a year, maybe even two years. But then again, that confidence can even come in 2 months.

Re: From Secretary to Software Developer: The Hard Way

#85

Post by ArkyBeagle »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #81

The thing that struck me is "anyone who is fascinated by computers and spends all their free time playing with them can be a developer." Back before developers were perceived as 'rich' and 'pampered' there were people who were fascinated by computers and spent all their time playing with them and were called 'nerds.' Then it became "cool" to be a developer or "you can get rich as a developer at a startup!" and then y…

Being a programmer meant not making all that much money.

This was true as late as in the 1980s. Before Gates, nobody rich was also a programmer. People like Ross Perot were not programmers.

Whatevs about it "being cool". I can certainly understand being interested in computers, but ... it's hardly what the cool kids do, what with they Camaros and 6x9 speakers and 8-track tape :)

Re: From Secretary to Software Developer: The Hard Way

#86

Post by relics443 »

stale2002 wrote: post #77
throwawasiudy wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most, not all, but most of the good developers I've known learned to code when they were teens. CS skills have been discounted endlessly compared to other engineering professions solely because it doesn't cost anything to learn. Other forms of engineering cost a lot of money to learn beyond the knowledge required for the job. That doesn't mean software dev is any easier. And, it's great that CS has such a low barrier…

The unfortunate thing about what you are saying is that a CS bar exam, or certificate, wouldn't "prove" that you have any worthwhile skills. CS degrees are math degrees. They don't address the needs of the millions of Web Dev jobs out there. I am not a computer scientist. I am a web developer and proud. And any web developer accreditation program needs to address the needs of web development and NOT address the needs…

I have a graduate degree in CS. I'm well versed in most aspects of the field. I pride myself on writing clean, efficient code, and architecting correctly. I also have a learning disability (dyscalculia) which makes certain things difficult (discrete math, calculus, etc...).

The fact that CS is based on mathematic principles does not make it a math degree (although that did make things challenging for me at times).

Re: From Secretary to Software Developer: The Hard Way

#87

Post by btym »

throwawasiudy wrote: post #76
relics443 wrote: post #63

TL;DR there are a lot of incompetent developers out there. This isn't a comment about the author, as much as it's about something she said. "Today you can take a lot of programming and Computer Sciences courses online. Everyone can be developer! There are also a lot of developer bootcamps: within 8–12 weeks you can become a developer." This is a very dangerous line of thinking. Some people have convinced themselves t…

Most, not all, but most of the good developers I've known learned to code when they were teens. CS skills have been discounted endlessly compared to other engineering professions solely because it doesn't cost anything to learn. Other forms of engineering cost a lot of money to learn beyond the knowledge required for the job. That doesn't mean software dev is any easier. And, it's great that CS has such a low barrier…

A useful accreditation program would be nearly impossible to create. The most important qualities (IMHO) in a developer are adaptability, collaboration, and creative problem solving, not technical prowess. That's why interviews are so rigorous— it's largely subjective whether an interviewer thinks a candidate will be a good fit.

Re: From Secretary to Software Developer: The Hard Way

#88

Post by kirse »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #81

The thing that struck me is "anyone who is fascinated by computers and spends all their free time playing with them can be a developer." Back before developers were perceived as 'rich' and 'pampered' there were people who were fascinated by computers and spent all their time playing with them and were called 'nerds.' Then it became "cool" to be a developer or "you can get rich as a developer at a startup!" and then y…

they are often just working a day job.

I used to be snooty about this too until I had a member join one of my teams who is exactly this type of person... Treats it like a day job, and absolutely rips through well-defined coding tasks as long as I do the general solution-finding and lay the architectural groundwork ahead of time. They don't burn out either, because it's just work to them and they take regular vacations.

They're not my go-to for solving architectural-type problems (solution-finding as you call it), but I'm OK with that because their strengths lie elsewhere in terms of discipline, focus, training JR team members in coding practices, knowledge of SW project process, etc. Every team needs its brick-layers who can work hard and follow blueprints really well, and not all of those brick-layers are going to be architects. One of my biggest work-related lessons out of 2016 really.

Re: From Secretary to Software Developer: The Hard Way

#89

Post by jorblumesea »

I really don't think the 8-12 week code camp means you are a truly competent developer. Sure you can hack around on x or y js framework of the month. But data structures, algos, big O...all of that comes into play at some point as a software engineer. You don't use it every day, or even every week. But it does happen.

And tbh, you can really tell the quality of candidate of code camp vs 4 year degree. We hired a code camp candidate, just to see how it played out. It didn't work that well.

Re: From Secretary to Software Developer: The Hard Way

#90

Post by tptacek »

pfarnsworth wrote: post #25

That's a great transition, congrats to the author. My wife's mother also went from a secretary to the COO of a multi-billion dollar real estate company. Similarly, the current CEO of Xerox, Ursula Burns, was an executive assistant at Xerox. Although rare, it seems like things like that happened a lot more often before than now. I'm not sure if it means that as a society we have more opportunity or that we are more pi…

Not to take anything away from Ms. Burns, but it sounds like her "executive assistant" job was atypically senior; she was promoted to it from product development jobs she'd been working at Xerox for many years prior.
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