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Edward Snowden’s Escape from Hong Kong [audio]
41–50 of 84 posts
Re: Edward Snowden’s Escape from Hong Kong [audio]
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well apart from China (which rules Hong Kong) or Russia, where else would he go? Maybe India as a last resort (India's protected the Dalai Lama for many decades).
> Maybe India as a last resort (India's protected the Dalai Lama for many decades). India didn't exactly have to put anything on the line for this considering the Dalai Lama was sponsored by the CIA when he first went into exile... Edit - downvotes but no response? It's well known that the CIA was involved in the Tibetan uprising that forced the Dalai Lama into exile, and that he was on their payroll at the time. Not…
>just documented history
People from HN expect links when you use such words. Could be the reason for downvotes I guess.
Re: Edward Snowden’s Escape from Hong Kong [audio]
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think you can describe the democratic election of a president who wants smaller, not bigger government as "fascism". It suggests a pretty poor understanding of the fact that fascism is pretty narrowly defined, and not another word for "thing I don't like"
No but Trump was/is promising to jail the opposition, promising to curb freedom of press, and generally using the language of fascism. I recently read for the first time Burkes rhetorical analysis of Hitlers Mein Kampf: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rhetoric_of_Hitler's_%22Ba... These tropes show up all over political speech of course, but I think it is undeniable that Trump has pulled together an unusually large…
> Trump is no Hitler
Well, Hitler was no Hitler either. Until he suddenly was.
The thing is, power is continually being increased and concentrated in the hands of fewer people, thanks to technology (which by definition has an exponential rate of growth of efficiency). Technology can make the transition from "weak democracy" to "fascism" potentially instant. And that is the danger.
Re: Edward Snowden’s Escape from Hong Kong [audio]
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
I work with some wealthy people. This is a fun topic and favourite topic--if the U.S. fell to fascism, where would you go. The most popular answe is Argentina. The most interesting is Kerala.
I live in the UK. I always used to think that if freedom fell here it would fall everywhere. Now my government is recording internet history, and censoring depictions of my (harmless but unusual) sexual practices. I'm not yet a criminal in my homeland, but I fear it's only a matter of time. Where do I go?
Eastern Europe. Our people are one of the most chill folk in the world (together with parts of Turkey and the Nordic countries, IMO) and as long you're not living off of welfare people will judge you by how you act towards them. Not to mention most of us are very hospitable and open.
Disclaimer: I am from Bulgaria. I've met countless Americans, a lot of British, loads of Eastern Europeans, some Nordics, some Turks and Arabs, very few Southern Americans, and some Asians. I still stand by my claim. We're pretty chill and the rotten tomatoes amongst us aren't more than anywhere else.
The fact that our governments don't take action on a load of issues unless it affects their pockets -- or the entire rest of the world already addressed them and they feel very behind (pick one) -- is in the strict meaning of the word bad... but it does have benefits. For example we couldn't care less about the overly sensitive political correctness movement. Almost nobody around here hates LGBT people unless they become very vocal and attention-seeking. Or any other kind of people. Nobody screams "sexism!" when a woman isn't qualified for a job. Nobody has the resources to censor or monitor the internet around here as well. (For now.)
Additionally, Bulgaria and Romania offer one of the best internet connections in the world. (Estonia too, but that's in the Baltic area.)
If you can work remotely, you'll reap the benefits of living in a relatively cheap country with a foreign paycheck. Trust me, it feels pretty good and is very sustainable. (But hell, don't ever get stuck with a local regular job.)
I don't seriously think you'd use such a feedback in your decision making -- but consider it a biased anecdotal semi-informative piece.
Re: Edward Snowden’s Escape from Hong Kong [audio]
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Maybe India as a last resort (India's protected the Dalai Lama for many decades). India didn't exactly have to put anything on the line for this considering the Dalai Lama was sponsored by the CIA when he first went into exile... Edit - downvotes but no response? It's well known that the CIA was involved in the Tibetan uprising that forced the Dalai Lama into exile, and that he was on their payroll at the time. Not…
>just documented history People from HN expect links when you use such words. Could be the reason for downvotes I guess.
There is a point where that stops, no? I mean we don't provide links to the wikipedia page for the Holocaust...
Re: Edward Snowden’s Escape from Hong Kong [audio]
#46Re: Edward Snowden’s Escape from Hong Kong [audio]
#47The U.S. has fallen to fascism, where will you go?
Fascism: everything within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state. If you can freely choose to leave then that's a strong indicator that your nation is not fascist.
> If you can freely choose to leave then that's a strong indicator that your nation is not fascist.
So the people who decided to flee from Nazi-Germany, the Soviet Union or North Korea were not fleeing from a fascist country?
Re: Edward Snowden’s Escape from Hong Kong [audio]
#48The U.S. has fallen to fascism, where will you go?
The Austrian side of my family fled Anschluss [1]. Within this context, the hyperbolic ("I am upset about our political system") and literal ("I will likely be killed soon") uses of the term "fascist" are meaningful. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anschluss
One of the most disappointing things about the last election cycle in the U.S. and Brexit here in the U.K. has been people happily accepting euphemism and hyperbole as part of political/social rhetoric. Maybe it's been happening for a while, but to me it felt like a sudden shift.
Bannon is a "white supremacist" because he was accused of making a single antisemitic remark by his ex-wife, during divorce proceedings, which he denies.
Trump is a "fascist" and a "white nationalist" because he wants to bring down legal and illegal migration, and is skeptical of Islam's role in modern day terrorism.
People who voted for the U.K. to remain in the EU are being branded "enemies of democracy" because they're pleased that the representatives elected to parliament will get final say on what was a non-binding referendum, in a country which is not a plebiscite.
"Genocide" is being used on Twitter to describe the decline of the white race as a % of the population as a whole in North America, despite the fact that genocide is a legal term which the UN's OSAPG defines as requiring dolus specialis. I.e. to believe it's actually genocide you have to believe that not only are actions being undertaken which singularly target and try to kill white folks, but also that there is a specific intent from those in power to do so: that the tens and thousands of white people in government, the CIA, the NSA, etc. are trying to kill themselves off.
Maybe it's just that compared to the atrocities of the early twentieth century the bar is now comparatively low, and what constituted "disaster" in 1935 is incomparable to what constitutes a disaster in 2016. But it feels like we're not using the precision and care we should with words.
Re: Edward Snowden’s Escape from Hong Kong [audio]
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
Fascism: everything within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state. If you can freely choose to leave then that's a strong indicator that your nation is not fascist.
> If you can freely choose to leave then that's a strong indicator that your nation is not fascist. So the people who decided to flee from Nazi-Germany, the Soviet Union or North Korea were not fleeing from a fascist country?
Two points on this:
1. OP said strong indicator. It's by no means the only indicator and a state can be fascist whilst still allowing people to leave.
2. Many people who were not targets of the regime were unable to flee Nazi-Germany, the Soviet Union, and North Korea.
Re: Edward Snowden’s Escape from Hong Kong [audio]
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
The Austrian side of my family fled Anschluss [1]. Within this context, the hyperbolic ("I am upset about our political system") and literal ("I will likely be killed soon") uses of the term "fascist" are meaningful. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anschluss
One of the most disappointing things about the last election cycle in the U.S. and Brexit here in the U.K. has been people happily accepting euphemism and hyperbole as part of political/social rhetoric. Maybe it's been happening for a while, but to me it felt like a sudden shift. Bannon is a "white supremacist" because he was accused of making a single antisemitic remark by his ex-wife, during divorce proceedings, wh…
Trump was called a fascist because he wanted to create a registry of muslims and spent a good while castigating Mexicans before somehow attempting to walk it back. He was called a white nationalist because he courted extremely controversial figures like David Duke.
I do think people are often too quick to go to extremes when using terms like "fascist" and "socialist" (abused by both sides), but I don't think it's a stretch to start applying those to Trump.