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Nintendo releases original Zelda design docs

nintendo.co.uk

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Re: Nintendo releases original Zelda design docs

#31

Post by richardboegli »

jowiar wrote: post #26
Waterluvian wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"As a surgeon I appreciate planning the operation before cutting the person open." Your comment seems trivially true to me. How can one possibly begin the second without the first? And yet people try it all the time!

Go to a good art museum and see the "studies" associated with many pieces of art. Before the final product, the artist has a bunch of experiments with techniques, framing, and the like. One of the things we often lack in software is a good medium for exploring mechanics. Getting something to the point where we can conduct an "Is this fun?" test or more generically "Does this serve the purpose" without a massive devel…

> One of the things we often lack in software is a good medium for exploring mechanics. > Getting something to the point where we can conduct an "Is this fun?" test or more generically "Does this serve the purpose"

A medium? Would you care to expand on this point? While I agree that more work could be done on speeding up the tools used, the process / concept / activity itself already exists, so I am not sure what you mean by medium.

PROTOTYPING is a fundamental part of the software engineering process (and other engineering disciplines), but I see it get missed A LOT in software development, for a variety of reasons. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_prototyping

As vvanders has already said, "White Boxing" is a common technique for video game development.

Re: Nintendo releases original Zelda design docs

#32

Post by ThomPete »

setr wrote: post #25
thesimpsons1022 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but what makes the game more fun? from what i've seen, most people agree that Nintendo games are some of the most fun consistently and yet they use this process. Meanwhile there have been many disasters like no mans sky that have been built iteratively.

No man's sky would have been a bad game by either development practice; it's failure primarily stems from a misunderstanding of game design The game was fundamentally shallow

While I agree on that I think the point of the parent was that No Man's Sky would never have been created if it was designer first.

Re: Nintendo releases original Zelda design docs

#33

Post by cobalt »

ThomPete wrote: post #32
setr wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No man's sky would have been a bad game by either development practice; it's failure primarily stems from a misunderstanding of game design The game was fundamentally shallow

While I agree on that I think the point of the parent was that No Man's Sky would never have been created if it was designer first.

well a lot of people may realize they don't really have a design, but will think that they can build one up as they work

Re: Nintendo releases original Zelda design docs

#34

Post by phjesusthatguy3 »

mustacheemperor wrote: post #24
Waterluvian wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"As a surgeon I appreciate planning the operation before cutting the person open." Your comment seems trivially true to me. How can one possibly begin the second without the first? And yet people try it all the time!

As an agile surgeon, I focus on immediate deliverables - we can figure out how to restart the heart once we've iterated breaking the ribcage a few times.

on the one hand, I refuse to believe this is true.

on the other hand, I've been subject to one surgery and been third-party to multiple others, and can't see how this isn't true.

Re: Nintendo releases original Zelda design docs

#35

Post by plasticbugs »

bluedino wrote: post #12
jfroma wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree! I think in this case these drawing have a lot of implementation details. It is actually the pattern table, the palette etc.

Are there larger scans of those sheets anywhere? Possibly a blank?

BG Planning Sheet linked from Nintendo Europe: https://cdn02.nintendo-europe.com/media/downloads/games_8/wi...

Re: Nintendo releases original Zelda design docs

#36

Post by Volt »

thesimpsons1022 wrote: post #21
deepsun wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But don't forget that today it's often faster to program it first without a plan, and rewrite it a few times later; than to draw such nice design plans and iterate on them before writing actual code. Also, in some cases, writing actual code reveals some unforeseen problems in design.

but what makes the game more fun? from what i've seen, most people agree that Nintendo games are some of the most fun consistently and yet they use this process. Meanwhile there have been many disasters like no mans sky that have been built iteratively.

Make no mistake though—Nintendo doesn't use that process exclusively. They also experiment, prototype, and refine.

http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/wiiu/splatoon/0/0

Re: Nintendo releases original Zelda design docs

#37

Post by Tiktaalik »

thesimpsons1022 wrote: post #21
deepsun wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But don't forget that today it's often faster to program it first without a plan, and rewrite it a few times later; than to draw such nice design plans and iterate on them before writing actual code. Also, in some cases, writing actual code reveals some unforeseen problems in design.

but what makes the game more fun? from what i've seen, most people agree that Nintendo games are some of the most fun consistently and yet they use this process. Meanwhile there have been many disasters like no mans sky that have been built iteratively.

Nintendo is an iterative developer. They prototype everything and they don't start on any final art or narrative development until the gameplay fundamentals are solid.

For example the Iwata Asks interview with the Splatoon team mentions that the early prototypes for the title were just experiments where boxes were running around in a box world shooting colours at one another. Once that was fun and the controls felt good they figured out everything else about what the game was going to be.

Re: Nintendo releases original Zelda design docs

#38

Post by jordache »

buzzybee wrote: post #20

Don't be deceived: the reason why these plans look nice is because of the team structure of the Zelda project. The design team spent a lot of time drawing up polished graphics and layouts and then "threw it over the fence" for implementation, in waterfall fashion. This is still a common practice within Japanese teams, as evidenced by, for example, Mighty No. 9's documentary, where you can witness an entire level cons…

you don't have bootstrap for game development... you better make sure the levels you spend time developing are well designed.

Re: Nintendo releases original Zelda design docs

#40

Post by saganus »

phjesusthatguy3 wrote: post #34
mustacheemperor wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an agile surgeon, I focus on immediate deliverables - we can figure out how to restart the heart once we've iterated breaking the ribcage a few times.

on the one hand, I refuse to believe this is true. on the other hand, I've been subject to one surgery and been third-party to multiple others, and can't see how this isn't true.

That's... scary.
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