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No tipping means better business

tastefulventures.com

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Re: No tipping means better business

#501

Post by dorfsmay »

amsilprotag wrote: post #339
dorfsmay wrote: post #220

Tipping is about the perception of social class and giving the buyer the perception of having power over others, by giving them a mini power-trip. In no other circumstances is a unilateral and after the fact negotiation acceptable. Would YOU work for a variable salary with no clear criteria on what affect it, no guarantee of salary regardless of your skills an effort and for which studies have shown that the colour o…

The problem is that two equilibria exist. The equilibrium of a tipping culture is reinforced by high-performing wait staff. If one restaurant or one city adopts a no-tipping policy, the well-tipped will move, the poorly-tipped will stay, and quality will suffer. The other problem is that the tipping culture has created many extrinsically motivated workers. Cultures without tipping require people who intrinsically per…

To avoid the math for the customers, restaurant can simply advertise price before service (like all restaurants), and add a compulsory service charge (say 15%).

In terms of incentive, what about firing the low-performers, like in other industries.

You are implying that tipping as an incentive works, I disagree, in my experience people tip based on the overall experience and a large part of that is taste which the wait staff has no influence over. What about a bonus for everybody, based on the profit made that month?

Re: No tipping means better business

#502

Post by k-mcgrady »

X86BSD wrote: post #354
k-mcgrady wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> "If they do the above and keep your water glass filled constantly without need to ask, if your meal, drink orders and dessert come out promptly and correctly This shouldn't be considered exceptional. It's what I'm paying for and should not require tipping. >> if they ask if everything is ok throuought the meal at appropriate times I understand you included 'appropriate' but this is honestly the thing that irritate…

It's hard to do the latter. When is the appropriate time to intervene to ask if everything is ok? But I can't tell you how many times I've not had a fork, or needed a drink and my waitperson never came to ask if I needed anything. The frustration can go both ways.

>> "When is the appropriate time to intervene to ask if everything is ok?"

When the meal is finished. If there's a real problem all it takes is for me to catch the eye of one of the many weight staff walking around and raise my hand and they'll come over.

Re: No tipping means better business

#503

Post by k-mcgrady »

nommm-nommm wrote: post #500
melvinmt wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When is the appropriate time to intervene to ask if everything is ok? Where I grew up (The Netherlands) this simply does not exist. If you need something you ask the waiter and only then they'll come to you. Likewise for the check, the check only comes when you ask for it. It is considered extremely rude to get the check before you've asked for it. Of course, after living in the US for 5 years I've become accustome…

Can you elaborate on "entree not being an appetizer?"

Outside the US and Canada 'entrée' is served before the main course. In the US and Canada entrée refers to the main course.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entr%C3%A9e

Re: No tipping means better business

#504

Post by r_smart »

X86BSD wrote: post #354
k-mcgrady wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> "If they do the above and keep your water glass filled constantly without need to ask, if your meal, drink orders and dessert come out promptly and correctly This shouldn't be considered exceptional. It's what I'm paying for and should not require tipping. >> if they ask if everything is ok throuought the meal at appropriate times I understand you included 'appropriate' but this is honestly the thing that irritate…

It's hard to do the latter. When is the appropriate time to intervene to ask if everything is ok? But I can't tell you how many times I've not had a fork, or needed a drink and my waitperson never came to ask if I needed anything. The frustration can go both ways.

I bartended for a couple years (and waiting tables was a part of that). it's actually pretty easy. After their food comes out, ask if they need anything else. If you see an empty glass, ask if they want a refill. Otherwise, just drift by occasionally and pay attention to the table. If they need you, they'll be looking to make eye contact / flag you down as you walk by and you won't need to say anything if they don't want you. Basically just don't be one of those servers that stands at the wait-station or bar, playing with your phone or socializing with co-workers without paying attention.

In my opinion, absent of delivering food, asking if people want refills, or addressing an obvious problem, you really shouldn't be interrupting people. The end result is good service without being annoying.

Re: No tipping means better business

#505

Post by cyberferret »

j2bax wrote: post #214
dalbasal wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have strong opinions on tipping either way. Personally, I prefer a culture where tips are an optional extra in culture. You do it when pleasantly surprised. That's nothing more than an "i like it this way" though. That said, who says "the worker's salary is a employer's responsibility?" Monetary culture is ancient and emergent. It's culture. Complicated, organic, varied and local. That doesn't mean that we sh…

Is there a place where "tips are an optional extra"? It seems wherever I've been they are either expected or not expected/allowed...

As others have pointed out in this thread, many other countries have wonderful systems in place that work without mandatory tipping.

No disrespect intended, but like with things such as gun control laws and plastic currency in different colors materials and sizes (two examples of things implemented on a wide scale in other countries with NO adverse effect), I am always bemused when US based people keep insisting that it will never work there.

Re: No tipping means better business

#506

Post by dragonwriter »

nommm-nommm wrote: post #496
hsitz wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say "just" the psychological impact. Which is of course true, but I would leave out the "just" and emphasize that, yes, this is all about psychological impact. I go to these kind of POS restaurants/coffeshops all the time, and I can't recall one where it didn't have a tip screen. I know of several that are also set up so that "no tip" is not even one of the options, the only easy options you have are to select 10…

Not only that but you've got people behind you in line who can see what you are doing, and you don't want them judging you! What if you we with a date, or a friend, or your boss or coworkers? They can see the screen and you want signal you are a good person to these people.

A good person, by the standards of tipping culture, tips appropriately after service; tipping before service destroys the link between service and tip that is the fundamental conceit of the tipping culture.

Visibly tipping before service is not signalling that you are a good person.

Re: No tipping means better business

#507

Post by nommm-nommm »

msvan wrote: post #495
gkuan wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In some places, the wait staff will grab you on your way out and notify you that you didn't tip enough (say 20% instead of 30%).

This happened to me once in NY at a fairly nice place. The waitress came back and asked what was wrong with the service, when we were really just a group of stingy Europeans.

I am American. I grew up pretty poor and we didn't go out to eat when I was a kid. When I was about 15 I went to a diner. My uncultured friends and I didn't leave a tip, not because we didn't want to, we legitimately just forgot to leave a tip. I would never forget now since 1) I pay by card and they have a tip line and 2) I am used to eating out now. The waitress followed us outside to the parking lot demanding a tip, it was awfully hostile.

Re: No tipping means better business

#508

Post by pcvarmint »

illumin8 wrote: post #286
thoughtsimple wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is almost certainly going to rarely happen. Almost no server feels empowered enough to insist on this. And restaurant owners will start insisting on collecting and counting cash tips so they can fully account for the wages. No server wants their boss counting their cash tips. At least in Massachusetts, declared tips is self reported.

I've even seen something very shady recently - a nice restaurant that added a mandatory 20% "service fee" to our party of 7, had fine print that said "60% of your service fee goes to your wait staff." The implication is that not only is this restaurant, which we ended up paying ~$80 a person to eat dinner + wine + dessert at, screwing their customers with the mandatory service charge, they're also screwing their empl…

Others have been willing to backtrack:

http://www.seattletimes.com/life/food-drink/seattle-restaura...

Re: No tipping means better business

#509

Post by nommm-nommm »

shanemhansen wrote: post #460
wccrawford wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like you're only classifying the physical labor as "work", and ignoring the skill and effort it takes to do all the stuff a waiter/waitress does. There's a lot of memorization involved, being able to answer a lot of different questions, making sure the meal gets delivered as soon as possible, with the right stuff, and checking back at the correct times to see if anything else is needed, including drinks. It'…

As someone who worked in the restaurant industry, and who's immediate and extended family worked in the restaurant industry, this feels like: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism_of_small_difference... I've worked at pretty nice restaurants and while attitudes like yours were pretty pervasive, the only real difference between bussing and waiting was that wait staff was over 21 and thus able to serve alcohol. I ca…

In this particular case the waiter didn't even bring us the alcohol, someone else did. Bartender? Runner? Who know, but it wasn't the waiter (or the busboy).

Re: No tipping means better business

#510

Post by greedo »

lostphilosopher wrote: post #326
coreyp_1 wrote: post #321

I think that tipping as a percentage of the meal cost is absolutely idiotic. I have never gotten good service at an expensive restaurant, and yet the receipt gives you the math for 18%, 20%, and 22% tips. I have gotten good and bad service at cheap restaurants (something like Steak and Shake), and tip accordingly. The "work" is not anything different between the two jobs. Just take my order, bring me my food, and ref…

This! I have never heard a compelling explanation of this. It gets doubly weird with alcohol in the equation. A group of 4 shares a $60 dollar bottle of wine with dinner. The waiter/ress brings a bottle and pours 4 glasses. If that doesn't kill the bottle they leave it and often the guests refill on their own. = $12 tip A table of 4 gets 4 glasses of pop $2.50 each, each a different kind. The waiter/ress brings 4 ful…

Because tip culture helps the restaurant owner make money. If you incentivize your wait staff to push expensive specials and high priced wine by the bottle, then both they and the restaurant make more $$.
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