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No tipping means better business

tastefulventures.com

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Re: No tipping means better business

#441

Post by branchless »

Jemmeh wrote: post #437
branchless wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes I wouldn't say every minute of my time in a cafe was bad. I enjoyed producing, adding value etc. The tips didn't really come into it much for me because my base wage was enough. It wasn't going to make or break my week. The power dynamic comes from creating a system where people are forced to work to meet their largest expense: rent.

That's true of any job though. Why single out restaurants? I'm all for automating jobs in general, but we're not there yet.

For me I'm thinking of "the service industry", the lower end. Here employees are low-skill, therefore at the mercy of employers who can swap them out for a less testy serf if required.

Those further up the value chain have more of a give-and-take relationship with their employer, the supply/demand curve is more in the favour of the employee. The employee has better savings and is not facing missing next week's rent if they are fired. A very different dynamic.

Re: No tipping means better business

#442

Post by oxide »

gman2345 wrote: post #427
elastic_church wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And don't forget the entire lower class of super-important minimum wage earners who collectively have disdain for minorities that don't tip as high. The insanity is amusing just typing it out, amongst other commenters talking about how strange America seems from other countries.

I am a white male, but speak with a heavy accent despite living in US for over a decade. One time a server lectured me about tipping right before leaving the bill.

spend a couple years getting stiffed by people with heavy accents, you'll start lecturing too.

keep in mind these people don't earn a living wage, they live off of tips.

Re: No tipping means better business

#443

Post by Johnny555 »

jghn wrote: post #415
Johnny555 wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it my responsibility to do performance reviews of restaurant employees? The management already forced me into a performance rating system through tips, I shouldn't have to sit down with the manager to do a detailed performance review too. Besides, if the food and service was so bad that it warranted a $0 tip, I'm probably not coming back.

For one thing they have no idea if you have a legitimate complaint, are someone who has such high standards that it's not worth catering to, or simply a cheap bastard. They care strongly about the former, will shake their head at the middle and will dislike you if it were the latter. If you actually speak up they'll have a better idea.

If the manager has no idea whether or not the service warranted a 0% tip, then that's the problem right there. It's his job to know that.

Re: No tipping means better business

#444

Post by snarf21 »

jackptfh wrote: post #373
throwaway2016a wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One is the idea of a percentage I've always found this odd too. Say for a special occasion I decide to go to a high end steakhouse... mid-range bottle of wine, two nice steaks, a'la cart sides, appetizer, and desert we're at $500. That's $100 at 20%. Did that person really do more work than the person I tipped $10 at Chili's (an american casual family restaurant)? > Another inconsistency is where to tip I usually e…

Yes, on average the server at the high end restaurant did substantially more work, and they performed it more expertly. they were better able to answer questions and offer suggestions (including off-menu changes that might help you). They timed your meal for your enjoyment rather than for turnover. They made sure you had fresh silverware, a clean table, and a full glass. They coordinated your bar, wine, and food orde…

I agree. I think the reason has to be that you are getting a better level of service and they will have a much lower volume of tables so they need a higher margin per table. (Obviously there are some high volume / high cost restaurants but that isn't the norm.)

Re: No tipping means better business

#445

Post by gech »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #257
crazygringo wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a New Yorker, I honestly don't know what you're talking about. Tips are flat-out refused at the no-tip restaurants. And the idea that your tip was tracked in a database and that you actually got better service the next time because of it is entirely in your mind, I'm sorry. There's actually a tremendous amount of research on incentives, and they don't always result in the behavior you'd think.

> Tips are flat-out refused at the no-tip restaurants From experience, they are not. I don't typically carry cash, and actually draw it to test this hypothesis every time I visit no-tip restaurants. The first time I do it, I am usually reminded I am at a no-tip restaurant. After I insist on the excellence of the service the tip is always accepted. > the idea that your tip was tracked in a database Database? It's just…

You could insist on giving extra money at any business or for any service and most of them would take it.

Re: No tipping means better business

#446

Post by nommm-nommm »

mgkimsal wrote: post #317
fowlerpower wrote: post #296

Having worked in the restaurant industry for over 12 years, started as a bus boy at 15 years old, then waiter, then bartender and finally moved to General Manager of the whole place. I can tell you that tipping is absolutely necessary. I can say that the article is dead wrong about this. Tipping is the best thing that's ever happened to the US Restourant business. Especially at great establishments with repeat custom…

> Your staff, the waiters the bus boys will feel like owners through tipping. If they do a shitty job they don't get paid, it doesn't get more capitalistic than that. It's the the same thing that motivates employees of startups that have equity. So... why not have startup devs get tips? Or... wait... why not do actual profit-sharing at restaurants? Give monthly or quarterly bonuses based on profit-sharing calculation…

I worked in fast food and our service was exceptional! It was because the place was run like a well oiled machine.

It had to do with the owners, who were very process oriented and educated people. Plus they really cared. Management was, in turn, very good. All the managers there when I was there had been there over a decade so they probably were paid well. The managers, of course, managed their staff well. It really was a nice place to work.

Re: No tipping means better business

#447

Post by hsitz »

seangrogg wrote: post #432
jghn wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're absolutely right however I'd argue that the presence of that tip line there leads people to feel bad and leave something there, which starts the feedback loop going to the point where it is/will be expected

At that point it is just the psychological impact you allow suggestions to have on you. One could probably make an "employee-owned" store (WinCo, Trader Joes) with lovely staff and get away with doing this to sweeten the pot for employees.

You say "just" the psychological impact. Which is of course true, but I would leave out the "just" and emphasize that, yes, this is all about psychological impact. I go to these kind of POS restaurants/coffeshops all the time, and I can't recall one where it didn't have a tip screen. I know of several that are also set up so that "no tip" is not even one of the options, the only easy options you have are to select 10%, 15%, 20%, and if you want to leave no tip you have to select 'custom' and then set it to 0.00. This is all about psychological impact.

RE psychological impact: It has often crossed my mind, but I have never investigated, whether the employee on the other side of the POS screen sees whether I have entered a tip or not after I click 'DONE' and the screen is swiveled back around. My decisions are mostly based on thinking they can see this, and I would be less likely to leave a tip, or more likely to leave smaller tip, if I knew that they don't see this info.

Re: No tipping means better business

#448

Post by [deleted] »

cr0sh wrote: post #436
Draiken wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wholeheartedly agree. I feel like these numbers were just made up. Who decided 10% is good? or 20%? Why is it a percentage? This whole system is absurd to me. If we follow the same logic then why don't programmers get "tips" when they do a nice commit message? or deliver on time? why are servers so different? Just saying it out loud makes me giggle because of how silly it sounds.

> This whole system is absurd to me. If we follow the same logic then why don't programmers get "tips" when they do a nice commit message? or deliver on time? why are servers so different? Because they are making below minimum wage (something like $2.00 and change per hour, iirc) - and tips are to cover the rest. So maybe, if you were in the same situation as a software developer, you would want a good tip for good s…

[deleted]

Re: No tipping means better business

#449

Post by X86BSD »

gcb0 wrote: post #364
X86BSD wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tipping is supposed to be for exceptional service. For example, if the wait person takes your order and brings your food and nothing more I wouldn't tip. If they do the above and keep your water glass filled constantly without need to ask, if your meal, drink orders and dessert come out promptly and correctly, if they ask if everything is ok throuought the meal at appropriate times, etc I would tip. Getting good serv…

thats is also wrong. repeat visits is what you do for good to exceptional service/product at a good price. tipping culture is just the lazy way for restaurants owners to deal with high attrition rates and lack of training and decent wages.

I don't think so. At least for me, I tip because I've worked in a kitchen. I've worked with waitstaff. I know how hard that job can be. If you are happy, and do a good job with me I would feel guilty not paying you a tip because your normal wage is shit and it's almost impossible to live on. So if I can tip you $15 bucks raising your hourly to at least $22/hr or so I feel good for helping that person being able to live. It's voluntary. Its cash. I expect you to pocket it and not pay tax on it. But that's your call.

Re: No tipping means better business

#450

Post by gkuan »

demosito666 wrote: post #391
oddlyaromatic wrote: post #238

Here's a pickle: I agree with the direction of this article, but I don't agree with most of the individual points and statements. I think the expectation of tipping in the US is in general a bad thing, but has enough upsides for business owners and some higher-earning servers (and even some customers) that it will be hard to dislodge. I also think the incentive for any business to change is probably not as high as th…

Is tipping somewhat mandatory in the US? Everywhere I've been it's up to the customer to decide if he wants to leave the tip. What if I won't leave tips?

In some places, the wait staff will grab you on your way out and notify you that you didn't tip enough (say 20% instead of 30%).
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