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No tipping means better business

tastefulventures.com

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Re: No tipping means better business

#421

Post by nommm-nommm »

lefstathiou wrote: post #16

I've traveled the world and have come to the conclusion that diners are better off in a tipping environment. Realize this is purely anecdotal but time and time again we have come to the realization that incentives matter and incentivizing good service makes sense to me (and I shouldn't have to order a bottle of wine at lunch to get it). If all someone is going to do is play telephone from one side of the room to the…

I'm American. I've traveled enough and I've even lived outside of the US for a time. I have no idea how you can come to this conclusion, I've never had noticeably bad service outside the US and certainly nothing like "play[ing] telephone from one side of the room to the other." The only difference I notice is there's disturbingly fake niceness in the US and they rush you out after you're done eating. I guess if you are looking for someone to pretend to be your friend you'd get that. Personally, I'm just looking for a meal with my dining companions.

Re: No tipping means better business

#422

Post by JumpCrisscross »

nommm-nommm wrote: post #335
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> keeping 40% of it for the owner Depending on the city and state, this could be illegal. I'd encourage you to ask the server if the 40% goes to the kitchen or the owner. If the latter, write a letter or make a call to your labour law enforcement group.

It's not illegal. https://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs15.pdf >A compulsory charge for service, for example, 15 percent of the bill, is not a tip. Such charges are part of the employer's gross receipts . Sums distributed to employees from service charges cannot be counted as tips received, but may be used to satisfy the employer's minimum wage and overtime obligations under the FLSA. If an employee receives t…

Hence my caveat, "depending on the city and state". For example, it's not allowed in California [1].

[1] http://www.tipcompliance.com/polLearningCenter.cfm?doc_id=89

Re: No tipping means better business

#423

Post by anamoulous »

nolite wrote: post #381
jackptfh wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, on average the server at the high end restaurant did substantially more work, and they performed it more expertly. they were better able to answer questions and offer suggestions (including off-menu changes that might help you). They timed your meal for your enjoyment rather than for turnover. They made sure you had fresh silverware, a clean table, and a full glass. They coordinated your bar, wine, and food orde…

All of these things you describe, fall under what I consider "their job"

So assume that if they (and the back of the house, in the event of tip pooling) were paid a meaningful base wage it would have cost 20% more for the experience of dining at the restaurant. Do a calculation and add that to the check, because that's what you would be paying if we didn't have tip culture.

Re: No tipping means better business

#424

Post by jghn »

dclowd9901 wrote: post #340

It doesn't matter. People will _still_ tip. While the vast majority of us _hate_ tipping, there are some out there who absolutely live by it emotionally (I'm talking about the tippers here), and maintain a healthy amount of guilt if they don't tip. Case in point: One of the biggest wins of Uber was to remove the tip concept from getting a ride. It made the whole experience effortless and seamless. Portland being Port…

I've never tipped an uber driver however one only needs to spend some time in /r/uberdrivers to learn that many drivers around the country actually do expect tips. It has nothing with Portland being Portland. They'll also point out that Uber hasn't said "no tipping" for a long time, although IIRC the drivers aren't allowed to ask for one.

I completely agree with your last two statements though.

Re: No tipping means better business

#425

Post by nommm-nommm »

joshontheweb wrote: post #395
csydas wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. I'm an expatriated US citizen, and I find the restaurant service abroad on par with US restaurants, with the only difference being how much lip service is given by the servers. To explain it simply, in US restaurants, I feel like someone is trying to brown-nose the entire time. It's not value that I seek, it's someone doing something and trying to place value on it. The servers are mostly pleasant, and at…

What upsets me is when I have to wait too long for refills on drinks and if I'm not checked back on to see if anything else is needed shortly after the food is served. I've had many experience in non-tipping countries where you may never see your waiter again after the meal is served. Of course, thats just my experience but it seems fairly consistent. I never have that problem in the US and if I do, I certainly don't…

If there is poor service report it to the manager or something but please don't withhold a tip. I've explained the reasons in another comment - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13263490

Re: No tipping means better business

#426

Post by hota_mazi »

The author of this article needs to travel a bit.

> what if we were to magically make tipping disappear?

Tipping is nonexistent in most of Europe, and guess what: the service absolutely sucks as a consequence.

Why would waiters go out of their way to please you? They don't make more money doing so. So your orders take forever, waiters never smile or even show any kind of a pleasant attitude. It's a terrible experience all around.

Tipping is awkward and the fact that the prices you see are never the prices you pay is annoying, but it has upsides.

Re: No tipping means better business

#427

Post by gman2345 »

elastic_church wrote: post #412
makecheck wrote: post #342

Tipping is also extremely inconsistent in at least three ways. One is the idea of a percentage: how does that make any sense? When I go out for a rare nice dinner and the tip alone ends up being $20 or so, I ask myself: did this person/restaurant really do any more than the server of the last entire meal that cost $20? Of course not, and yet somehow it would look weird to pay $40 for a $20 meal with tip, for the same…

And don't forget the entire lower class of super-important minimum wage earners who collectively have disdain for minorities that don't tip as high. The insanity is amusing just typing it out, amongst other commenters talking about how strange America seems from other countries.

I am a white male, but speak with a heavy accent despite living in US for over a decade. One time a server lectured me about tipping right before leaving the bill.

Re: No tipping means better business

#428

Post by firenz »

nolite wrote: post #381
jackptfh wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, on average the server at the high end restaurant did substantially more work, and they performed it more expertly. they were better able to answer questions and offer suggestions (including off-menu changes that might help you). They timed your meal for your enjoyment rather than for turnover. They made sure you had fresh silverware, a clean table, and a full glass. They coordinated your bar, wine, and food orde…

All of these things you describe, fall under what I consider "their job"

Agreed. Where I'm from, if a restaurant or a fast food doesn't satisfy these things (aka doing their job), then I simply don't go there.

Re: No tipping means better business

#429

Post by Anasufovic »

freeflight wrote: post #271
pzh wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Precisely that! But apart from the inability to predict table occupancy (for which you could theoretically come up with some ML solution), the other issue is that from a strict economic sense, having people occupy a table for 3 hours vs 1 hour while paying the same amount of money is a singificant opportunity cost to the business. In essence, from the perspective of the restaurant, people who are having a 3-hour meal…

>A nice side effect of the tipping culture in the US is that this inefficiency is eliminated. What you consider an "inefficiency" is part of a lifestyle in big parts of Europe. Going out to eat isn't just considered "calorie intake" that needs to be "as quick and efficient as possible", it's considered leisure and social time, especially in the southern parts of Europe like Greece, Italy or Spain. It's also very seld…

Precisely this, if anything, it's part of the experience you pay for. His suggestions of using ML for occupancy and optimizing for turnover would more likely ruin the restaurant. Luckily in business schools being aware of cultural differences is being taught more and more.

Re: No tipping means better business

#430

Post by greedo »

kasey_junk wrote: post #417
greedo wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The restaurant I worked in during the 80's pooled tips, and both the chef and the line/prep cooks shared in the pool. I think even the lowly dishwasher was included, though we all gave him part of our own tips before putting them in the pool.

You'd need to consult a labor lawyer to be sure but that is probably a labor law violation unless the front of house staff was being paid the regular minimum wage and not the credited wage. https://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs15.pdf

IIRC the front of the house participated in the pool (I know because we were irritated with the Mgr getting our tips). The hostesses got min wage, but the managers were salaried (with bonuses).
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