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No tipping means better business

tastefulventures.com

281–290 of 550 posts

Re: No tipping means better business

#281

The last issue "Chef's will love you" has a lot less to do with tipping or not (personally I'm against tipping and wish it would go away, but its not why back of house staff get stiffed). Back of house staff, in the US, cannot tip share. Its against the law. Assumedly this was originally meant as a worker protection, but in recent years, especially at higher end establishments, it acts as a wage limit for the people…

> Back of house staff, in the US, cannot tip share. Its against the law.

Do you have a reference for this? I know of a few restaurants, in New York and Arizona, where the kitchen shares in the pool.

Re: No tipping means better business

#282
post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just an FYI, but if a tipped employee does not meet the minimum wage, the employer must make up the difference. https://webapps.dol.gov/elaws/faq/esa/flsa/002.htm

This is almost certainly going to rarely happen. Almost no server feels empowered enough to insist on this. And restaurant owners will start insisting on collecting and counting cash tips so they can fully account for the wages. No server wants their boss counting their cash tips. At least in Massachusetts, declared tips is self reported.

I'm surprised this is still allowed by the IRS. When I was a waiter back in the 80's in California, we went from self-reporting to turning in our tips. All the tips were pooled, then divvy'd up between waitstaff, busboys, cooks, managers etc. And taxes were taken documented. So our "paycheck" was puny since the withholding was taken from our hourly payrate.

Re: No tipping means better business

#283

Maybe I'm ruining it for everyone, but when I've gone to New York's budding "no tip" restaurants, I've thrown a cash tip on the bill. Guess what happened next? I was asked my name, and the next times I went, I got seated faster, comped chef's recommendations and a generally friendlier interaction with my server. Same thing happens abroad, where the locals don't tip well. I don't understand how people get shocked by f…

I'll be honest: we wouldn't be friends.

That wanton aiming for tragedy of the commons for personal benefit -- and bragging about it later -- just makes you someone I expect Id detest.

Im sure you do equally unsavory things in other parts of your life, and make up similar excuses for why it's okay for you to do it.

Re: No tipping means better business

#284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And yet it's considerably more expensive. Even after you've included all of your costs? It's easy to say the raw food ingredients are considerably less expensive, but that's only a small part of the story. There is a cost of having a kitchen (tools and space in the home), utility costs, not to mention your time. Maybe a high end specialty restaurant that is selling an experience, but I'd be surprised if you could a…

Maybe a high end specialty restaurant that is selling an experience, but I'd be surprised if you could actually compete with a place like McDonalds on cost. Fries and a hamburger are about the easiest thing to make, requiring no special equipment. The ingredients are a lot cheaper than buying at McDonald's, too. If you have more than one person eating, then the cost savings can really add up.

> Fries and a hamburger are about the easiest thing to make, requiring no special equipment.

For all practical purposes of modern urban life, you at least need some kind of specialized heating apparatus.

More importantly, somewhere to store that apparatus. Which is quite often a kitchen. In San Francisco, the median housing cost per square foot is almost $1,000. A small kitchen is defined as 70 square feet, or $70,000. If we assume a rate of 3%, the opportunity cost of that kitchen is almost $6 per day, or $2 per meal if we assume three meals per day.

That brings the cost of an $8 McDonalds meal down to about $6 right there.

Then there is your time. San Francisco has officially declared that your time is worth at least $13/hr. At that rate you have just 28 minutes before you've already used up that $6. That includes gathering the ingredients, prepping the food, cooking the food, and cleaning up afterwards. That does not leave a lot of room for error, even for something as simple as burgers and fries.

It does indeed get better with scale, but I have also left off a number of other costs, including the cost of the food itself. For a single person (in SF) it is no contest without even getting into other costs.

Of course, there is something to be said about the food you can create yourself, versus eating at Mcdonalds every meal. Cost isn't everything.

Re: No tipping means better business

#285
If I go to a brewery for a pint (brewery, not brewpub) there's a tip line on the credit card receipt. I've been to a couple wineries for a glass of wine...And never seen a tip line on the winery recept. Can anyone explain this one to me?

Re: No tipping means better business

#286
post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just an FYI, but if a tipped employee does not meet the minimum wage, the employer must make up the difference. https://webapps.dol.gov/elaws/faq/esa/flsa/002.htm

This is almost certainly going to rarely happen. Almost no server feels empowered enough to insist on this. And restaurant owners will start insisting on collecting and counting cash tips so they can fully account for the wages. No server wants their boss counting their cash tips. At least in Massachusetts, declared tips is self reported.

I've even seen something very shady recently - a nice restaurant that added a mandatory 20% "service fee" to our party of 7, had fine print that said "60% of your service fee goes to your wait staff."

The implication is that not only is this restaurant, which we ended up paying ~$80 a person to eat dinner + wine + dessert at, screwing their customers with the mandatory service charge, they're also screwing their employees by keeping 40% of it for the owner. I won't eat there again...

Edit: Added visual proof (and name and shame): https://s3-media4.fl.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/t3UUaCU8gl6zPsVQghlv...

I would be happy to learn that the 40% was going to the cooks. It's still a shady practice, and what makes it worse than not informing your guests ahead of time is that they're doing this in the name of "providing a livable wage for our staff." Pay your staff a livable salary and stop screwing your customers over...

Re: No tipping means better business

#287
post #37

> Now what if we were to magically make tipping disappear? Think about the diner for a second. What if, by removing tips from your restaurant, you’ll actually end up delighting more guests, improving your food, and retaining employees? Well, I've dined all over the world (not an American btw), and the US had the most friendly and alert waiting stuff, which I guess it's at least party because of the tipping. Sure, in…

I think this might come down to individual preference. Personally, I find the whole US dining experience rather uncomfortable. Because I come from a country without a tipping culture (Australia), I'm never sure if I'm tipping way too much, or way too little. So my meal always comes with a nice side-order of "paranoia that I'm committing a social faux pas".

I also hate the constant 'how is your meal going sir?' check-in; I just want to eat in peace without some poor guy feeling he has to do the whole fake-buddy routine every 5 minutes to earn his tip. But there seems to be no polite way to say "Hey, no need to constantly check on me, or be creepily friendly. I'm going to tip you anyway". It just feels so contrived.

Maybe I just have poor social skills or something...

Re: No tipping means better business

#289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is almost certainly going to rarely happen. Almost no server feels empowered enough to insist on this. And restaurant owners will start insisting on collecting and counting cash tips so they can fully account for the wages. No server wants their boss counting their cash tips. At least in Massachusetts, declared tips is self reported.

I've even seen something very shady recently - a nice restaurant that added a mandatory 20% "service fee" to our party of 7, had fine print that said "60% of your service fee goes to your wait staff." The implication is that not only is this restaurant, which we ended up paying ~$80 a person to eat dinner + wine + dessert at, screwing their customers with the mandatory service charge, they're also screwing their empl…

> keeping 40% of it for the owner

Depending on the city and state, this could be illegal. I'd encourage you to ask the server if the 40% goes to the kitchen or the owner. If the latter, write a letter or make a call to your labour law enforcement group.

Re: No tipping means better business

#290
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very rarely do I cite market forces to address social problems, but to me this feels like an appropriate situation for it. Restaurants are constantly getting applications, and many who do not do well on high-tip nights will appreciate the stable paycheck. I won't put non-sense statistics to it, but while many servers do earn huge paychecks from tips, many others scrape by and fight for hours at minimum wage and have…

> have servers that brag about huge payouts. I'm pretty sure that this is a form of Gambler's Fallacy. I've heard a story of a waiter who got a high rollers table one night and walked away with a $1,000 tip. But I heard it from a girl who worked with him. He was a 20-year industry veteran. She was some five years in at the time. The story was told another five years after it happened. Sure, it was a massive payout on…

>I'm pretty sure that this is a form of Gambler's Fallacy.

Definitely. In my experience the waitstaff who most vigorously support the tipping culture are the ones who don't keep exact track of their tips and heavily overestimate their average hourly pay. They are also the ones who gamble the most on scratch-offs, keno, etc.

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