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No tipping means better business

tastefulventures.com

271–280 of 550 posts

Re: No tipping means better business

#271
post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would imagine that the restaurant considers it closer to a bug than a feature because its tables are finite. Parties that come in looking for a table aren't necessarily going to be queued up, most will just go somewhere else.

Precisely that! But apart from the inability to predict table occupancy (for which you could theoretically come up with some ML solution), the other issue is that from a strict economic sense, having people occupy a table for 3 hours vs 1 hour while paying the same amount of money is a singificant opportunity cost to the business. In essence, from the perspective of the restaurant, people who are having a 3-hour meal…

>A nice side effect of the tipping culture in the US is that this inefficiency is eliminated.

What you consider an "inefficiency" is part of a lifestyle in big parts of Europe. Going out to eat isn't just considered "calorie intake" that needs to be "as quick and efficient as possible", it's considered leisure and social time, especially in the southern parts of Europe like Greece, Italy or Spain.

It's also very seldom that people really manage to just drink one bottle of wine in 3 hours, usually it's bigger groups and they tend to drink a lot once they finished eating. Depending on how the restaurant prices their drinks the "3 hour drinking group" can end up making way more money for the restaurant than trying to shove 3 parties of "Just eat something with a small soda", into the same timeframe.

Re: No tipping means better business

#272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on what I've seen in the US, tipping doesn't encourage good service, it encourages noticeable service. I'd rather be served by a slightly inattentive sullen teenager in the UK, than a perky waitress with a fake smile pestering me all the time in the US.

How about a third option: a professional that knows how to give food and wine recommendations when asked with no fake smiles and pestering. In some european countries this would be normal even for small moms-and-pops restaurants.

3rd option seems fine dining place with wine experts and all. I think those sullen teenager or perky waitress would be working at a diner or something.

Re: No tipping means better business

#273
post #229
post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, because unlike a bonus, tips make up a significant portion of waitstaff's regular income. If they don't get their tips then maybe they don't make rent. It's a completely different situation than bonuses on top of a salary that already covers living expenses.

At some finance companies yearly bonuses are up to 20 monthly salaries.

That's just for tax avoidance, those 'bonuses' are mostly part of their contract.

Re: No tipping means better business

#274
post #184
post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worse still, tipping is merely a way of keeping class hierarchies, and it's disgusting. When a person walks into a restaurant in the USA they can waive a $20 bill at a waitperson and say if you do what I want, and if I like you, and if I'm feeling generous, I might give you some of this. Of course, they might not too. Labor laws, minimum wage, etc are all there to make this illegal in a work contract, and it should b…

> When a person walks into a restaurant in the USA they can waive a $20 bill at a waitperson and say if you do what I want, and if I like you, and if I'm feeling generous, I might give you some of this. So you also dislike bonuses for white collar professionals? Because it's exactly the same thing.

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Re: No tipping means better business

#275
post #212
post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, because unlike a bonus, tips make up a significant portion of waitstaff's regular income. If they don't get their tips then maybe they don't make rent. It's a completely different situation than bonuses on top of a salary that already covers living expenses.

> No, because unlike a bonus, tips make up a significant portion of waitstaff's regular income. Bonus makes up a significant portion of my regular income. I'm sure that's true for many other HN readers. > It's a completely different situation than bonuses on top of a salary that already covers living expense. In many cases, salary does not cover living expenses. In some instances bonuses can be 10x annual salary or m…

What employers are paying 3x and 10x salary in BONUSES? That's ludicrous.

Also, if you're still working there and looking for fresh CS grad (Scala and Linux admin experience), my email is in my profile ;)

Re: No tipping means better business

#276
post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When a person walks into a restaurant in the USA they can waive a $20 bill at a waitperson and say if you do what I want, and if I like you, and if I'm feeling generous, I might give you some of this. So you also dislike bonuses for white collar professionals? Because it's exactly the same thing.

I worked in finance sales for about 3 years. Bonuses are fun but I have seen a lot of misconduct in the pursuit of a bonus. Maybe its just banking... I'm all for the no tipping and i happily work without a bonus. And i would expect other to as well. If you can't show up and be consistent in performance without a carrot then thats maybe not a great reflection of how you work and what you value.

My values at work are to get paid. I think that's why most people work instead of doing their hobbies all day. The carrot is payment. Nothing wrong with that.

Re: No tipping means better business

#277
post #58

As a person who was born and living in a country which has no tipping culture. The tipping sucks. I should have been fully informed how much should I have to pay before I purchase something or some service. Any extra demand from agreed amount should be illegal. I also don't want to waste my precious time on paying the tip for calculating tax. The worker's salary is a employer's responsibility. If the the worker becom…

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Re: No tipping means better business

#278
post #273
post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At some finance companies yearly bonuses are up to 20 monthly salaries.

That's just for tax avoidance, those 'bonuses' are mostly part of their contract.

> That's just for tax avoidance, those 'bonuses'

Can you teach me how this tax avoidance works? It seems that I am missing out. Can you also specify the jurisdiction where this works?

> mostly part of their contract

I can think of many people whose bonuses are 3x or more their salary and who do not have a guaranteed minimum bonus or even a strict formula based bonus.

Re: No tipping means better business

#279
post #212
post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, because unlike a bonus, tips make up a significant portion of waitstaff's regular income. If they don't get their tips then maybe they don't make rent. It's a completely different situation than bonuses on top of a salary that already covers living expenses.

> No, because unlike a bonus, tips make up a significant portion of waitstaff's regular income. Bonus makes up a significant portion of my regular income. I'm sure that's true for many other HN readers. > It's a completely different situation than bonuses on top of a salary that already covers living expense. In many cases, salary does not cover living expenses. In some instances bonuses can be 10x annual salary or m…

Is the bonus agreed upon before starting work or do you just work for pennies with the hope your employer is feeling generous at the end of the year?

Re: No tipping means better business

#280

I've traveled the world and have come to the conclusion that diners are better off in a tipping environment. Realize this is purely anecdotal but time and time again we have come to the realization that incentives matter and incentivizing good service makes sense to me (and I shouldn't have to order a bottle of wine at lunch to get it). If all someone is going to do is play telephone from one side of the room to the…

>Realize this is purely anecdotal but time and time again we have come to the realization that incentives matter and incentivizing good service makes sense to me (and I shouldn't have to order a bottle of wine at lunch to get it).

But this works both ways: If the service staff expects to be tipped regardless of the quality of service, then there's not much incentive for good service in the first place, because the customers are expected to tip anyway and bad service will just result in a marginally lower tip.

If customers are not expected to tip at all, then the service staff has to put in some actual effort to get a tip, because their service needs to be so "exceptionally good" that the customer actually notices it, instead of just taking it for granted.

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