Related discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13217320
Solar power is now the cheapest form of energy in almost 60 countries
51–60 of 75 posts
Re: Solar power is now the cheapest form of energy in almost 60 countries
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're right, there isn't a lot of software in the solar panels themselves (they are indeed just a semiconductor). However, that's not where the costs are. Only about 34% of the cost of a solar installation is actual hardware. 64% of the installed cost is customer acquisition, overhead, engineering, labor, etc[1]. These are all costs that can be optimized with software. For example, my startup focuses on automating t…
This is true, but software engineers often prefer to work in software-driven companies instead of companies where software is used to reduce costs. They feel valued more in co's where software is the main source of profit - this is the same reason a lot of software engineers aren't excited to work for the big companies in the (massive) retail industry, or infrastructure more generally, which also are "scaling problem…
Hmmm, it really depends on the company.
Many newer energy companies have recognized that software is a profit center. Something like half of solar leads are referrals from existing solar customers, so there's a ton of effort put into good customer experience (pre and post installation) to drive more referrals.
Also, many firms are wanting to offer grid services (demand response, load smoothing, etc.) back to the grid, which also is potential profit driven by software. I think you'd be surprised at how much importance is placed at the larger firms on software.
Also, for smaller shops that can't afford their own programmers, there's vendors who sell the software to do all the analysis, financing, engineering, etc. Those cleantech software vendors obviously see software as the profit center (my startup is one such example). And solar is like HVAC in that there's thousands and thousands of smaller local shops in addition to the half-dozen nation brands, so lots of customers for SaaS providers.
Re: Solar power is now the cheapest form of energy in almost 60 countries
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're right, there isn't a lot of software in the solar panels themselves (they are indeed just a semiconductor). However, that's not where the costs are. Only about 34% of the cost of a solar installation is actual hardware. 64% of the installed cost is customer acquisition, overhead, engineering, labor, etc[1]. These are all costs that can be optimized with software. For example, my startup focuses on automating t…
Yeesh. Good luck.[1] [1]: https://www.google.com/get/sunroof#p=0
Heh, Google Sunroof needs customer usage data, which is what we do :)
Re: Solar power is now the cheapest form of energy in almost 60 countries
#54I work in solar, and here's my favorite climate change joke: "They say we won't act until it's too late... Luckily, it's too late!" Solar is no longer an experimental thing, and the industry is now focused on scaling. How can we deploy more solar faster? It's ridiculous how cheap panels have gotten, but a significant amount of the cost savings in the past few years is coming from soft cost (logistics, overhead, engin…
I'm a mechanical engineer who is looking to switch industries in the near term future. I have controls experience, as well as mechanical design, electrical, and system integration experience on side projects. What solar companies would you suggest? Where are they geographically located?
I'd recommend checking out the exhibitor list for the big solar conferences[1][2]. Start browsing the companies and see if any interest you and have job postings on their websites.
[1]: http://spi16.mapyourshow.com/7_0/search.cfm
[2]: http://www.intersolar.us/en/attend/exhibition/exhibitor-list...
Re: Solar power is now the cheapest form of energy in almost 60 countries
#55I work in solar, and here's my favorite climate change joke: "They say we won't act until it's too late... Luckily, it's too late!" Solar is no longer an experimental thing, and the industry is now focused on scaling. How can we deploy more solar faster? It's ridiculous how cheap panels have gotten, but a significant amount of the cost savings in the past few years is coming from soft cost (logistics, overhead, engin…
What cleantech companies would you recommend?
I'd recommend checking out the exhibitor list for the big solar conferences[1][2]. Start browsing the companies and see if any interest you and have job postings on their websites.
[1]: http://spi16.mapyourshow.com/7_0/search.cfm
[2]: http://www.intersolar.us/en/attend/exhibition/exhibitor-list...
Re: Solar power is now the cheapest form of energy in almost 60 countries
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
The 20 or maybe 25 years duration is not bad at all in itself, but before or later it has to be done, and usually noone talks about that when illustrating the "advantages" and "cleanness" of the solution. I was not saying that disposing properly of such materials is not "straightforward", only that its costs (as well as those for the disposal of batteries, thanks _red for mentioning them) are rarely included in most…
Certainly. I chalk that up a certain amount of optimism surrounding solar energy (and renewables in general), not willful ignorance of the real costs of deploying any sort of infrastructure on a national scale. Based on what you said, the EU seems to have figured out a responsible way to handle those costs, at least on the individual level.
Yes, though it has to be seen how well it will work out in the long term, when huge amounts of panels and batteries will be in need of being disposed of.
In any case the Law represents a good provision for the consumer/end user, JFYI:
http://ec.europa.eu/environment/waste/weee/index_en.htm
Specifically in Italy:
http://www.solarwaste.eu/in-your-country/italy/
The resources are "distributed": >Waste originating from PV modules classified as household (B2C) waste (those installed in PV plants with a nominal power below 10 Kw) is financed by the Producers present in the market in the year when the costs occur according to their market share.
But only for "household" plants: >Waste originating from PV modules classified as non-household (B2B) waste (those installed in PV plants with a nominal power equal or above 10 Kw) placed on the market before 12/04/2014 is financed by the Producers when selling a new PV module replacing the old, in all other cases the financing is upon users. For waste originating from B2B PV modules placed on the market after 12/04/2014, the financial responsibility is upon Producers for the modules they placed on the market.
So there is IMHO a risk about companies that sell today but will be not anymore in business in 20/25 years time to pay for the disposal ...
... cannot say if there are some forms of insurance (or whatever) covering this possibility.
Right now (just for the record) the fee for WEEE (for business) is between 0.30 €/kg and 0.50 €/kg + shipment, which seems very little when you are dealing with "light" items like - say - LCD TV's or laptops, but not so little when you are dealing with CRT's or similar.
Re: Solar power is now the cheapest form of energy in almost 60 countries
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'd recommend treating it as a normal HVAC or construction project. Call local contractors who have experience in the area and climate, get bids and recommendations, then choose a contractor. Most solar contractors either have financing options (like car dealerships) or can point you to one (like realtors). Also, try to find someone who has solar and talk to them. In smaller markets like this, local experience is imp…
My problem is that we really don't have any local experienced outfits. Chicken and egg problem I'd imagine.
Where in North Dakota? If you provide a rough location, I will come back with options for you.
Re: Solar power is now the cheapest form of energy in almost 60 countries
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're right, there isn't a lot of software in the solar panels themselves (they are indeed just a semiconductor). However, that's not where the costs are. Only about 34% of the cost of a solar installation is actual hardware. 64% of the installed cost is customer acquisition, overhead, engineering, labor, etc[1]. These are all costs that can be optimized with software. For example, my startup focuses on automating t…
Batteries are still a huge cost. To be truly off-grid, you need a lot of storage capacity. You could easily spend 2 to 4x as much on batteries as on PV panels right now. The cost of batteries (or other energy storage methods) needs to go down, because PV panels on their own are just not quite good enough for residential. I'm out of the house during most or all peak hours for solar generation. I would need one or two…
The goal of the storage industry is not to take everyone off grid. The goal is to increase the penetration capacity of intermittent renewables. You can get to 50% penetration without storage, but you need demand response and storage to push beyond 50%. So, most storage isn't priced to be off-grid, it's priced to provide the most value to the consumer (demand response, peak shaving, backup power, etc.).
At the end of the day it's all about economics, and there's lots of economics in favor of connected storage in addition to off-grid storage.
Re: Solar power is now the cheapest form of energy in almost 60 countries
#59I work in solar, and here's my favorite climate change joke: "They say we won't act until it's too late... Luckily, it's too late!" Solar is no longer an experimental thing, and the industry is now focused on scaling. How can we deploy more solar faster? It's ridiculous how cheap panels have gotten, but a significant amount of the cost savings in the past few years is coming from soft cost (logistics, overhead, engin…
Why would a solar company need software engineers? It seems to me like a mechanical and electrical engineering field. It would never occur to me to look for a job in the field because I see no way my skills would be relevant. Nor am I interested in being someone else's cost center.
I am no solar skeptic; I have had a solar array on my house for three years now. I just don't see how you get from "solar is here now and not something we are still waiting for" to "you should get involved in the industry".
Re: Solar power is now the cheapest form of energy in almost 60 countries
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
Certainly. I chalk that up a certain amount of optimism surrounding solar energy (and renewables in general), not willful ignorance of the real costs of deploying any sort of infrastructure on a national scale. Based on what you said, the EU seems to have figured out a responsible way to handle those costs, at least on the individual level.
Yes, though it has to be seen how well it will work out in the long term, when huge amounts of panels and batteries will be in need of being disposed of. In any case the Law represents a good provision for the consumer/end user, JFYI: http://ec.europa.eu/environment/waste/weee/index_en.htm http://www.solarwaste.eu/ Specifically in Italy: http://www.solarwaste.eu/in-your-country/italy/ The resources are "distributed":…
Thanks for the resources.