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The Disadvantages of an Elite Education (2008)

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Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education (2008)

#211
post #67
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went to Stanford, and I disagree. Sure, there are exceptions, but most fellow alumni I know are very boring. For example, many live in San Francisco, work for Facebook or Google, and do little of note besides the following: - have an "interesting" hobby - work out at the gym - hang out with friends at the bar or club - work on their career - start a "start-up" - travel - ... other very self-serving pursuits Most re…

What's wrong or boring about any of the things you mentioned? What would you do differently?

Here is another possibility for something to work on. We are deploying IoT at scale without much concern for security. Effectively, we are building a massive weapon for our enemies to use against us -- one that is distributed, fault-tolerant, and built into our infrastructure. We would not be able to escape the consequences of such a weapon.

In addition to serving society, this would also be self-serving. I have to imagine someone working on this would become fairly wealthy or at least very eminent.

As far as I know, something close to nothing is being done about this problem.

Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education (2008)

#212
post #93
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot of human trafficking in Oakland, a short BART ride away from SF. With so much problem-solving ability in nearby SF, why is this still a problem? So are homelessness, childhood hunger, etc And why do we crowd around in the Bay Area, pushing out artists and other people? Why don't we spread out across the U.S., spreading ideas and doing good?

Humans are bad at multiplying utilities. Building a service that gives $100 of utility to ten million people is probably better for society than improving the nutrition of a few hundred children in SF. People tend to over-value charitable endeavors that fall into certain categories, like helping the homeless or feeding the children. I suspect it's a societal mechanism for encouraging practical charity that was a lot…

I can't imagine a single person whose life would be better in any significant way with an extra $100. Not even a homeless person would find this quantity helpful over the long-term.

Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education (2008)

#213

I graduated from one of the top universities in my country (top 50 in the world) and we learned pretty much exactly the same material as they did at MIT. In reality I don't think there is any significant difference in terms of education quality between the top #1 university and #100 for any given field. But the difference in terms of opportunities after finishing MIT vs finishing some other good university is massive…

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Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education (2008)

#214

" Witness the last two Democratic presidential nominees, Al Gore and John Kerry: one each from Harvard and Yale, both earnest, decent, intelligent men, both utterly incapable of communicating with the larger electorate. " Wasn't Bush II a Yale graduate?

Yale and Harvard Business School.

Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education (2008)

#215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I studied engineering at Cornell. We had a diverse student body, and this article is just one person's experience. For me, I had a great conversation with my plumber. Clever trick: he stores the snaker in an old tire so he can just roll it around. For my business, the advantage is initial credibility to customers, but there's so much work beyond that. The software has to be useful, the sales process has to be navigat…

I've had several friends study at Cornell, undergrad and grad level. They all have seemed to be pretty open and approachable. Based on personal anecdotes it'd seem Cornell is one of the better Ivy Leagues for not completely falling into the mentality mentioned in the article. Good to hear there are more sensible Ivy League engineering folks, much less just engineering folks, who can have a conversation with a non-tec…

Engineering is much more of a blue collar profession than say, private equity. Many of my classmates, like myself, came from the midwest, and we studied engineering because we love what we do, not for the money.

Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education (2008)

#216
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'just'?

How is it not "just" ending up at Facebook or Google when you could've BS'd your way through high school, gone to a mediocre state school, and landed a new-grad position at one of those companies? Stanford or X State University, suddenly all of those years mean nothing and new graduates of both schools come to the same starting blocks, only this time at a massive software company where tens of thousands of others fol…

I know engineers at Facebook who only have high school educations.

Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education (2008)

#217
post #212
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humans are bad at multiplying utilities. Building a service that gives $100 of utility to ten million people is probably better for society than improving the nutrition of a few hundred children in SF. People tend to over-value charitable endeavors that fall into certain categories, like helping the homeless or feeding the children. I suspect it's a societal mechanism for encouraging practical charity that was a lot…

I can't imagine a single person whose life would be better in any significant way with an extra $100. Not even a homeless person would find this quantity helpful over the long-term.

> I can't imagine a single person whose life would be better in any significant way with an extra $100.

The fact that you chose to make this argument demonstrates you are using your evolved utility-heuristic hardware and not any sort of rational approach.

What you are probably doing is doing is clamping the utility of $100 to zero ("not significant" is the key concept). Then your brain, which is already bad at multiplying utilities, multiplied roughly zero by ten million people, got roughly zero, and then you made this comment.

Actually, it might not have even done that last part. It sounds like you jumped from "$100 is basically nothing" to "might as well not even consider the number of people gaining utility". It's a good effort-saving heuristic.

So that's the first problem with your argument; it's wrong from a utility theoretic perspective. It doesn't matter if the per-person amount is small. You have to multiply it by the number of people being affected (and your utility function's multiplier on their utility function).

The second problem with your argument is that you're making sort of a fallacy of composition. It's true that $100 isn't much in the grand scheme of things for an individual. But all the utility you ever experience in your entire life is just the sum of lots of (arbitrarily) small utilities. You gain almost nothing from any single bite of food, but it would be wrong to use this fact to claim that you don't gain anything from eating. Even if Google or Apple or Costco or Toyota have individually only contributed a few tens of thousands of dollars of utility to my life, their collective contribution represents the total utility I get from modern industrialization, which is very large. Similarly, if 0.01% of a population 10,000,000 can provide an "insignificant" $100 of utility to each person in that population, that's $100,000 of utility per person. For modern software, where marginal costs are negligible, we get incredible economies of scale.

Facebook and Google reach billions of people, providing at least tens of dollars of utility per year (probably more like hundreds), which translates to trillions of dollars of utility over decades. That's probably more utility than has ever been gained from charity.

At bulk scales, like we have in today's society, the kind of analysis your brain does by default doesn't work. It gives the wrong answer, which is why people think it's better to help a small charity case than do something that's mildly beneficial for a huge number of people.

Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education (2008)

#218
post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume you mean Thiel funding the downing of Gawker after their scurrilous behavior and attempts to justify anything under the First Amemdment, then that one actually has my full support. As for the rest, to quote Dennis Hopper (IIRC) "I'm not crazy. I'm rich. Rich people are eccentric".

I'm criticizing his means more than his ends in that particular example. If I were on my game, I would have brought up Palantir and how they're helping roll out the infrastructure of our present and future police state.

Fosh. Dude is a scumbag. You know that meeting he just put together for/with Trump, with all the tech. leaders, centered around tech. employment? You know, the one with people like Jeff Bezos, Larry Page, Sheryl Sandberg, Tim Cook, Elon Musk, Ginni Rometty, Brian Krzanich...and Alex Karp.

Hmm, let's see.

Amazon employs 250k+ people; Alphabet employs 60k+; Facebook employs 15k+; Musk's companies employ 30k+; IBM employs 350k+; Intel employs 100k+; ... Palantir employs around 2000, but Alex Karp got to go to that meeting. I wonder who Palantir's biggest shareholder is...hmm?

P.S. The meeting also had Satya Nadella (Microsoft), Chuck Robbins (Cisco), and Safra Catz (Oracle)..and all three of Trump's children - who took seats from companies like HP, Dell, all telecomms, Xerox, and more. Seriously: fuck Peter Thiel.

Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education (2008)

#219
There is something maddening about the sort of discourse in which the expensively educated try to impress one another by doing penance for their educations and advantages. Also, does the plumber really care whether he has a conversation with the professor?

Re: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education (2008)

#220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went to Berkeley for CS and knew people that went to MIT and Stanford, and I don't agree. You're right the curriculum is the same. Everything else is different. Just one example: lots of undergrads do research. They get to work (albeit basically as trainees) in some of the top CS labs in the world.

Umm... Berkeley also has some of the top CS labs in the world...

I was referring to Berkeley, MIT, and Stanford.
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