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Anybody using a neovim MacOS app [1]? I'm a huge vim user, but mostly via MacVim [2]. [1] https://github.com/rogual/neovim-dot-app [2] https://github.com/macvim-dev/macvim
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First off, there's a lot of good reasons to use V.S. OK, Now that that's out of the way... The one thing I see people cite the most when they talk about not learning vim is "shortcuts". Vim's main editing interface is not "shortcuts". It's an editing language. There's a huge difference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdC2ysrP-XA (not trying to flame or boast or anything, just trying to honestly communicate my feelin…
Pretty sure that's not a simile.
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Neovim is Vim for me and many other users. Vim is irrelevant to me now. The community is rallying behind Neovim and it shows great potential. It just needs to be bundled by major distros so it can be installed on servers with 1 command and that'll be the end of old Vim. Bram has done a tremendous job with Vim but it's time to move on to the Vim of the future.
Why would it be the end of old vim? I've never used neovim and I don't plan to use it, vim is perfectly fine for me, as it is. I guess, most of vim users don't even know of neovim. Sure, it's good to have a choice.
Anybody using a neovim MacOS app [1]? I'm a huge vim user, but mostly via MacVim [2]. [1] https://github.com/rogual/neovim-dot-app [2] https://github.com/macvim-dev/macvim
I've been meaning to try neovim, but I'm so in love with evil-mode spacemacs. I only switched to evil-mode recently, but I can already tell that there's no going back from modal editing for me. Can anybody speak for benefits of using neovim over spacemacs?
Spacemacs is a huge complex mass of software on top of another. I could not digest it.
But, if you're already happy and productive with Spacemacs, it's unlikely you'll gain too much with Neovim.
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I've never touched neovim as I'm perfectly happy with vim - what reasons are there for me to consider making the switch? I would guess neovim isn't even on the radar of most vim users. I don't see neovim surpassing vim any time soon, personally.
The honest truth is that almost everyone will have the same exact experience in neovim as in vim, and that the differences right now (this could always change) are mostly for developers hoping to use vim in a creative way. For example, nvim has a decoupled back end, so ides could emulate vim without having to do emulation at all -- they would literally just communicate with the neovim backend. Another example, which…
EDIT: For the sake of being equal-opportunity, you can do the same thing in emacs with make-comint, even down to having it as an operator if you're using evil-mode. Y'know, whatever you're into.
[0]: https://gist.github.com/Wibjarm/5ae4c4da57bd034d15123cd8edad...
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> I don't know if I am too old or just think differently than vim enthusiasts You make it sound like vim is a new thing. It's 25 years old. And vi is 40 years old. If you've been writing code for longer than that, then damn. I'm impressed. > prefer a software, where you do things intuitively without needing to first learn a shortcut for everything. Like what? ctrl + c or ctrl + v? I doubt anyone has every figured tho…
> > prefer a software, where you do things intuitively without needing to first learn a shortcut for everything. > Like what? Like mouse-select, copy, paste. Once learned (however that happened, however long ago), it works across virtually all OS/gui combos (except gvim without knowing vim :), and you can immediately get something done. If you're dropped down into an environment, and have to get something done, using…
If that's all that vim could do better than traditional editors, then sure, stick with the traditional editors. Learning the complexity of vim is not worth it.
But those are incredibly trivial examples. vim can do so much more than that, in a really efficient and powerful way.
It's like demanding why one should use a battleship when a tricycle can also turn left and right, and can go forward and backwards. Yes, both can do that, but the battleship does far, far more, and there are reasons for its complexity.
If all you need is a tricycle, stick with the tricycle by all means. It's much more intuitive than a battleship. But some of us need far, far more power than that.
I don't know if I am too old or just think differently than vim enthusiasts, but I somehow couldn't bring myself to like vim. Of course that's might be since I can't find motivation to dig into it further. As a developer I use it almost daily when doing something on the server, like editing some config etc., but I somehow always prefer a software, where you do things intuitively without needing to first learn a short…
I'd argue Vim is actually the intuitive choice because its commands allow motion/editing across boundaries that make sense, without (in my opinion) awkward mouse/cursor motions. For example % at a function call will edit/select the whole call if the cursor is at the beginning of the function name. Once you have the muscle memory, you use little thought on how to mechanically accomplish editing tasks, so the intent-to…
I understand how pleasant it is to use a tool that you spend a lot of time in day in and day out that is beautifully designed and just looks and feels nice. I remember slightly drooling at how some fonts in a competing editor seemed to have a subtle glow. I would have liked to have that in vim, and maybe it is possible. There are some other GUI improvements that could make it look/feel nicer.
However, as a power user give me function over form any day. It's like the choice between taking a long, beautiful path vs a short, ugly one. Or maybe the long beautiful path can't even go where the short ugly path goes.
Most of the time, I'm using my editor to get things done, and done as quickly and efficiently as possible. I'm not using it to admire how beautiful my editor looks or show its looks off to friends.
If I have a choice between getting my work done in 2 seconds vs 5 minutes, I'll choose the 2 seconds. There must have been hundreds of times in my life where I've done a really complex set of editing tasks in vim (or emacs) in a couple of minutes that I know would have taken me hours and driven me insane in a traditional editor.
After learning vim (and emacs) being forced to use a traditional editor is like cutting off my arms. It's like being forced to drive a car that can go only 5 miles an hour and only make 90 degree turns. Super painful and it may not even be capable of doing what you want, and certainly not quickly, efficiently, or pleasantly. Though certainly the more sophisticated traditional editors are far better than primitive traditional editors like notepad or nano (though some people still swear by those and will not even think of leaving them!).
It's really hard to get across to people only used to traditional editors the sheer power that vim and emacs have. It's something that you really have to be a veteran of these editors to fully appreciate -- and that usually takes years.
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> "The only "intuitive" interface is the nipple. After that it's all learned." I did not know this saying, thanks. This explains why I cannot work on a GUI without a track point!
I hate those things! I've never been able to get the desired effect, except almost by accident, just like everything else in life that looks like those things. Total mystery.
I used to scorn trackpoints until my friend told me he's very fond of them - that convinced me to give it a try. They're not bad. Play with one for 5 minutes (to the clock), and you'll be liking them more than touchpads :).
I was surprised to learn that vim started out on the Amiga. Back in those days I was using DME, by a certain Matt Dillon (of Dragonfly BSD fame, not the actor ;-) ). At the time it was the only editor that could drag me away from Emacs. Ironic that Vim later seduced me away from Emacs again...
Cooincidental, not ironic.
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I've been meaning to try neovim, but I'm so in love with evil-mode spacemacs. I only switched to evil-mode recently, but I can already tell that there's no going back from modal editing for me. Can anybody speak for benefits of using neovim over spacemacs?
Simplicity. It's just Vim, but with less suck. Spacemacs is a huge complex mass of software on top of another. I could not digest it. But, if you're already happy and productive with Spacemacs, it's unlikely you'll gain too much with Neovim.