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Update on Multi-Process Firefox

blog.mozilla.org

41–50 of 175 posts

Re: Update on Multi-Process Firefox

#41
post #38

Does anyone know what the incentive behind the development of Firefox is at this point? Like, Chrome has such a huge browser market share, so why do they still develop Firefox? I assume it is not that feasible to invest time and money if the share is only 4%. I am just curious, and not trying to hate on Firefox. But I think most (?) non-tech people use Chrome. So maybe I am asking, what is the point of Firefox if the…

First of all, by common measurements Firefox's market share is more like 13.5% [1], not the 4% you mentioned. According to that link Firefox is the #2 browser, ahead of Microsoft and Apple's browsers. Second, Mozilla is a non-profit, so the incentives are different that the usual ones. Basically Mozilla wants to help the open web. A 13.5% browser can do that in many ways: drive new standards, provide an alternative t…

Thanks. That makes sense. I guess I just wasn't clear that Mozilla had unusual "non-capitalistic" goals.

Re: Update on Multi-Process Firefox

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because competition is a good thing. I personally wouldn't want the fate of web standards solely dictated by Google. Also, I'm not sure where you got that number, but Firefox's market share is well above 4% for most websites.

I looked here: https://www.netmarketshare.com/browser-market-share.aspx?qpr... It seemed valid, but maybe not. Do you know a better source? EDIT: Others have provided better sources!

You're not reading that link properly, but it's understandable since the link isn't the clearest. A specific version of Firefox has the 4% you mentioned, Firefox 49. Look a little lower down and you'll see Firefox 50 has another 3% on top of that, and so forth.

Re: Update on Multi-Process Firefox

#43

Does anyone know what the incentive behind the development of Firefox is at this point? Like, Chrome has such a huge browser market share, so why do they still develop Firefox? I assume it is not that feasible to invest time and money if the share is only 4%. I am just curious, and not trying to hate on Firefox. But I think most (?) non-tech people use Chrome. So maybe I am asking, what is the point of Firefox if the…

There was a time where Chrome was the up and comer with very low market-share. We need competition or we will suffer as end users. Chrome's time will also come eventually. It's not a matter of if, but when. Vivaldi and Brave are growing and coming along very nicely. Brave is actually spearheaded by the ex CEO of Mozilla before he was fired for some nonsense. https://brave.com/

I feel like there are a ton more flattering ways to refer to Brave's CEO - "inventor of JavaScript," "co-founder of Mozilla," or "CTO of Mozilla for 9 years" are all way better and way more relevant than "CEO for not even two weeks," and much less likely to cause an argument.

Re: Update on Multi-Process Firefox

#44
post #22

Does anyone have insight on why we're getting this for Firefox in (very late) 2016 while Chrome has had this since 2008 and IE since 2009? Seriously, I understand the need for competition in the browser, and wish there was a viable alternative to chrome on things that aren't Windows, but the failure of Firefox to keep pace is really disappointing. Slow and lacking basic features for years almost makes Firefox feel li…

Adding multi-process support is the biggest single architectural change ever made to Firefox.

It was started, then put on hold for a couple of years because it seemed insurmountable, and then started again. It's taken a huge amount of work, and thus a huge amount of time. But it's mostly done now and the benefits are reaching users.

Re: Update on Multi-Process Firefox

#45
post #37

Does anyone know what the incentive behind the development of Firefox is at this point? Like, Chrome has such a huge browser market share, so why do they still develop Firefox? I assume it is not that feasible to invest time and money if the share is only 4%. I am just curious, and not trying to hate on Firefox. But I think most (?) non-tech people use Chrome. So maybe I am asking, what is the point of Firefox if the…

My impression is that the bulk of Mozilla's financial backing is from competitors to Google (Yahoo, Baidu, Yandex), who have an interest in preventing Google from gaining a monopoly in the browser market. I think Mozilla employees choose to continue working on Firefox for similar reasons, though with more idealism: they have an interest in the browser market not being dominated by commercial vendors.

Mozilla has a financial partnership with Google as well.

You are spot on on why Mozilla employees work on Mozilla.

Source: I'm a Mozilla employees working on Firefox :)

Re: Update on Multi-Process Firefox

#46
post #2

I force-enabled multi-process FF a while ago and haven't had any issues. In the 49.x series there were one or two tab crashes, but I can't think of any recently. All of my extensions have worked just fine too.

No issue for me except for some occasional UI event sync loss (menu opened 3s later for another element).

Also multiprocess Firefox seems to struggle in GUI perf, it's jerky. Old firefox may be slow but it was a bit predictable. Here less.

Re: Update on Multi-Process Firefox

#47
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a time where Chrome was the up and comer with very low market-share. We need competition or we will suffer as end users. Chrome's time will also come eventually. It's not a matter of if, but when. Vivaldi and Brave are growing and coming along very nicely. Brave is actually spearheaded by the ex CEO of Mozilla before he was fired for some nonsense. https://brave.com/

I feel like there are a ton more flattering ways to refer to Brave's CEO - "inventor of JavaScript," "co-founder of Mozilla," or "CTO of Mozilla for 9 years" are all way better and way more relevant than "CEO for not even two weeks," and much less likely to cause an argument.

True! He's the father of Javascript - much respect.

Re: Update on Multi-Process Firefox

#48

Does anyone know what the incentive behind the development of Firefox is at this point? Like, Chrome has such a huge browser market share, so why do they still develop Firefox? I assume it is not that feasible to invest time and money if the share is only 4%. I am just curious, and not trying to hate on Firefox. But I think most (?) non-tech people use Chrome. So maybe I am asking, what is the point of Firefox if the…

In the excellent Dr. Dobb's Journal interview "A Triumph of Simplicity: James Clark on Markup Languages and XML" [1], they ask him:

DDJ: You're well known for writing very good reference implementations for SGML and XML Standards. How important is it for these reference implementations to be good implementations as opposed to just something that works?

JC: Having a reference implementation that's too good can actually be a negative in some ways.

DDJ: Why is that?

JC: Well, because it discourages other people from implementing it. If you've got a standard, and you have only one real implementation, then you might as well not have bothered having a standard. You could have just defined the language by its implementation. The point of standards is that you can have multiple implementations, and they can all interoperate.

You want to make the standard sufficiently easy to implement so that it's not so much work to do an implementation that people are discouraged by the presence of a good reference implementation from doing their own implementation.

DDJ: Is that necessarily a bad thing? If you have a single implementation that's good enough so that other people don't feel like they have to write another implementation, don't you achieve what you want with a standard in that all implementations — in this case, there's only one of them — work the same?

JC: For any standard that's really useful, there are different kinds of usage scenarios and different classes of users, and you can't have one implementation that fits all. Take SGML, for example. Sometimes you want a really heavy-weight implementation that does validation and provides lots of information about a document. Sometimes you'd like a much lighter weight implementation that just runs as fast as possible, doesn't validate, and doesn't provide much information about a document apart from elements and attributes and data. But because it's so much work to write an SGML parser, you end up having one SGML parser that supports everything needed for a huge variety of applications, which makes it a lot more complicated. It would be much nicer if you had one SGML parser that is perfect for this application, and another SGML parser that is perfect for this other application. To make that possible, the standard has to be sufficiently simple that it makes sense to have multiple implementations.

[1] http://www.drdobbs.com/a-triumph-of-simplicity-james-clark-o...

Re: Update on Multi-Process Firefox

#49
This narrative white-washes over the part where he was witch-hunted out of a well deserved leadership position because he exercised his first amendment rights in a way that was unpopular with the greater tech community.

Re: Update on Multi-Process Firefox

#50
Even on a clean Firefox 50.1.0 x64 install with just uBlock Origin and multi-process enabled Firefox feels quite a bit slower than Chrome. This really shouldn't still be a thing especially with Chrome also having to deal with a bunch of Flash based content on some sites (looking at you BBC News).
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