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How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

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Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#561

Post by linguae »

dkonofalski wrote: post #545
linguae wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem for some Mac users is that there is nothing else that compares to the status quo ante, when Apple used to make Macs that fit our needs. Us Mac users looking to upgrade are stuck between a rock and a hard place. We either have to choose between Mac OS X (and use underpowered and/or non-upgradeable hardware since that's all Apple sells these days) or good hardware (and use operating systems that we feel are…

This is the part that I don't understand, though. If you were using a Mac before for your work, then how is a newer, faster Mac unable to do the job? I get that you may be annoyed that you have to buy dongles and adapters or that being able to upgrade was a big thing for you, but Apple has not swept the rug out from under you and made your previous tools obsolete nor have they prevented their new hardware from doing…

Many Mac users, including myself, feel that the new MacBook Pro is inferior to the MacBook Pro it replaced. And for Mac desktop users, the situation is the Mac Mini hasn't been upgraded in two years, and the Mac Pro hasn't been upgraded in three years. And, once again, the current Mac Mini is a downgrade from its predecessor (and some may even argue that about the current Mac Pro over its tower predecessor). Sure, we can keep chugging on with our old hardware, but eventually our hardware will fail, and our options will either be to replace it with overpriced, deliberately crippled hardware if we want to stay in the OS X ecosystem or to switch away from OS X and deal with the inconveniences of Windows and/or desktop Linux. We can work with and deal with either option; heck I could get my work done with an old Pentium II laptop running Windows ME if I had to, but it's just not the same and is worse than what we had before. That's what we're lamenting.

Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#562

Post by strictnein »

olegkikin wrote: post #397
strictnein wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are some really interesting options. I recently picked up a new Asus Zenbook ux330ua (basically Macbook Air, but significantly better specs and ~$500 less) for mobile use and was going to start looking for a new desktop option. I really like building my own systems, so buying one prebuilt would be strange, but that's some serious hardware for pretty nice prices.

You could, but you have to be really careful with the motherboard socket, because Intel went a bit crazy with LGA2011: http://www.anandtech.com/show/7773/intels-three-versions-of-...

Yeah, if I built my own, I would probably end up just going with an i7-6700K and something like this:

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/GsX88K

Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#563

Post by olegkikin »

strictnein wrote: post #562
olegkikin wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could, but you have to be really careful with the motherboard socket, because Intel went a bit crazy with LGA2011: http://www.anandtech.com/show/7773/intels-three-versions-of-...

Yeah, if I built my own, I would probably end up just going with an i7-6700K and something like this: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/GsX88K

Meh. I'd rather get one of the dual-xeon setups I listed. For the same price you're getting a quarter of the ram, half the processing power, a quarter of the CPU cache. It will do better in single-threaded apps, so it all depends on the tasks you're facing. I do lots of 3D rendering, so I'd pick more cores, RAM and cache.

The other advantages of your setup are power efficiency and NVMe.

Oh, and btw, you will save yourself a ton of money if you just bid on the components on eBay. Take, for instance the CPU. You're going to pay $325 for it. Now check how much they auction for:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_sop=15&LH...

Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#564

Post by autoreleasepool »

htaunay wrote: post #185
autoreleasepool wrote: post #106

After being an Apple "Loyalist" for over 15 years, I recently sold my rMBP and built a desktop (i7 4790k, GTX 1080, 16Gb DDR3 @ 2933Mhz). It was by far the best hardware decision I have ever made. Building the system was an absolute blast. Plus, I now have an extremely powerful PC with first class Linux support, tons of I/O ports, and no vendor lock in. The best part is it cost me about 1/3 of the price of a (maxed-o…

Out of curiosity, if you are such a OS X/homebrew fan, why not try a Hackintosh setup? I don't know if you can get a dual-boot working well with OS X, but worst case scenario you can have a HD for each OS (after all, you have a desktop now and no longer a notebook) and boot the Linux disk in case the Hackintosh starts to show any signs of trouble.

I did make sure my motherboard was Hackintosh compatible. It's for sure on my to-do list of things to try when I have the time.

Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#565

Post by dkonofalski »

linguae wrote: post #561
dkonofalski wrote: post #545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the part that I don't understand, though. If you were using a Mac before for your work, then how is a newer, faster Mac unable to do the job? I get that you may be annoyed that you have to buy dongles and adapters or that being able to upgrade was a big thing for you, but Apple has not swept the rug out from under you and made your previous tools obsolete nor have they prevented their new hardware from doing…

Many Mac users, including myself, feel that the new MacBook Pro is inferior to the MacBook Pro it replaced. And for Mac desktop users, the situation is the Mac Mini hasn't been upgraded in two years, and the Mac Pro hasn't been upgraded in three years. And, once again, the current Mac Mini is a downgrade from its predecessor (and some may even argue that about the current Mac Pro over its tower predecessor). Sure, we…

How is the hardware deliberately crippled, though? You keep saying things like that as if they're objective facts. The new Macbooks can run exactly the same software and hardware as the old ones. The only difference is that you may need an adapter unless you have newer devices that can use USB-C. There's no way you could say that any of these are a downgrade from their predecessors when they have faster processors, more storage space, and better displays than any of the old machines. Again, you're bemoaning something that is entirely your decision. You expect the one of the biggest computer manufacturers in the world to cater to your specific workflow rather than verifying that your workflow is adaptable and extensible. That seems backwards to me and your lament seems completely misplaced.

Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#566

Post by 72deluxe »

pilsetnieks wrote: post #531
HillaryBriss wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes. totally. i'm surprised Apple even offers mechanical hard drives in their Macs any more. they're soooooooo slow. they make the whole machine feel like a wet sponge.

Storage. 1TB+ SSDs are still quite pricey.

I bought a 1TB SATA Samsung 850 Evo for my MacBook and it is like a new machine. So so so slow before this.

Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#567

Post by c22 »

dkonofalski wrote: post #301
snoman wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hundreds of millions of people that have used a mouse can attest to how 'natural' it is.

Except that the mouse is an example of being completely unnatural... The whole point of the positioning on the trackpad is that it's right there when you relax your hands from the keyboard. Otherwise, you'd see computers with trackpads above the keyboard. The positioning of a mouse may be a reflex from usage, but it's the exact opposite of natural.

I wish the trackpad was above the keyboard. I am constantly accidentally switching focus or selecting things while I am typing.

Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#568

Post by c22 »

72deluxe wrote: post #170
electic wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did take a close look at the Surface Pro. Sorry, the build quality is nowhere near a MacBook Pro. Secondly, I found the touch screen very gimmicky. I tried using it for a week and found that my hand just hurt lifting it up repeatedly and also hated switching context from the keyboard to the screen. Not to mention, the screen was full of smudge marks after awhile. To be honest, I really found myself using the keyboa…

Oddly I found the kickstand on the Surface Pro irritating to work with because the device becomes impossible to use on your lap, as you need to put the Surface quite far up your leg, and then the kickstand is further along than the length of your leg (hanging over your knees). So it becomes impractical to use. The OS has done quite well to optimise battery I thought - App Nap has been great. If I reboot my MBP into W…

I have this problem too. They could've mostly solved it by just making the keyboard work wirelessly while detached. (Surface with kickstand on the coffee table, keyboard in my lap.)

Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#569

Post by linguae »

dkonofalski wrote: post #565
linguae wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many Mac users, including myself, feel that the new MacBook Pro is inferior to the MacBook Pro it replaced. And for Mac desktop users, the situation is the Mac Mini hasn't been upgraded in two years, and the Mac Pro hasn't been upgraded in three years. And, once again, the current Mac Mini is a downgrade from its predecessor (and some may even argue that about the current Mac Pro over its tower predecessor). Sure, we…

How is the hardware deliberately crippled, though? You keep saying things like that as if they're objective facts. The new Macbooks can run exactly the same software and hardware as the old ones. The only difference is that you may need an adapter unless you have newer devices that can use USB-C. There's no way you could say that any of these are a downgrade from their predecessors when they have faster processors, m…

Let's agree to disagree regarding the value proposition of today's Macs. I personally and strongly feel that soldering RAM and storage to the motherboard is crippling the machine, but you feel differently about it, and I'm not going to argue further.

Honestly, the USB-C situation is the least of my problems with the MacBook Pro and Apple these days. It's the entire philosophy of Apple and their stewardship of the Mac since Steve Jobs passed away that I take strong issue with. The problem is there is absolutely no manufacturer on the planet who has a philosophy toward personal computing that is aligned with the pre-2012 Apple, before Apple started soldering RAM to their motherboards and before Apple started dramatically lengthening the frequency of updating their Macs. We had a great run of no-compromise personal computers from 2001-2013ish or so, and it's over, not because it got supplanted by superior technology, but because Apple can't make as much money off the 5-10% of power users rather than the masses. Maybe it's just a "c'est la vie" type of thing, but it's a shame that nobody seems to care about the personal computing needs of power users anymore.

Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#570

Post by davidf18 »

Miredly wrote: post #560
davidf18 wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for your reply, but I'm still a bit confused. I would have liked an NVidea dGPU instead of the AMD for GPU processing with CUDA so that is a disappointment, but from my understanding, the AMD 14nm node GPUs consume much less power than the NVidea GPUs. The new 15" unit is smaller and somewhat lighter with a longer battery life so for those that value portability, this is really helpful. I see value in havin…

I think your confusion is stemming from your perspective. To you, smaller and lighter is unequivocally a Good Thing- However my 2013 MBP 15" is already light enough that I can one hand it comfortably, and can carry it everywhere without noticing. If they'd allowed the new machine to stay at the same thickness, they could have gotten more battery life out of it, which would be something that I would consider a priorit…

Thank you. So for the laptop (as opposed to the desktop) if I understand you, a more powerful dGPU isn't important, but longer battery life would be.

As for me and people like me at the university (e.g. students, researchers, etc), we complain that the 15" 2015 laptop is too heavy because on its own (I'm in NYC so we walk, take subways which are faster than Uber or Taxi by far during busy times of the day which are frequent). The weight of the laptop case, a charge often, and books and papers that I use adds up to a lot.

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