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How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

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Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#301

Post by dkonofalski »

snoman wrote: post #287
dkonofalski wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point, though, is that your hand wouldn't naturally rest on the table near the screen like that. The main reason you're comfortable doing that is because you know you can scroll with your hand in that position. The natural resting position would be to relax your hands off the keyboard after typing and that puts it squarely in the area of the (comically) huge trackpad.

The hundreds of millions of people that have used a mouse can attest to how 'natural' it is.

Except that the mouse is an example of being completely unnatural... The whole point of the positioning on the trackpad is that it's right there when you relax your hands from the keyboard. Otherwise, you'd see computers with trackpads above the keyboard. The positioning of a mouse may be a reflex from usage, but it's the exact opposite of natural.

Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#303

Post by 1_2__3 »

optimuspaul wrote: post #19

As a Mac Loyalist I don't feel at all alienated. I am not merely a consumer and my life is more than the computer I use. I don't need or want constant attention. I think what they've been doing it great. Frankly I'm more annoying with the bloggers and media with their constant bullying of Apple. The iPhone 7 had just been announced and they were already speculating what the iPhone 8 was going to be. WTF? How about we…

"Bullying"? Come off it.

Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#304

Post by [deleted] »

optimuspaul wrote: post #19

As a Mac Loyalist I don't feel at all alienated. I am not merely a consumer and my life is more than the computer I use. I don't need or want constant attention. I think what they've been doing it great. Frankly I'm more annoying with the bloggers and media with their constant bullying of Apple. The iPhone 7 had just been announced and they were already speculating what the iPhone 8 was going to be. WTF? How about we…

[deleted]

Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#305

Post by nicpottier »

Recurecur wrote: post #32
deedubaya wrote: post #13

I still think macOS/OSX provides the best user experience for personal computing. It's the lack of substantial hardware updates which is driving users away. If creatives are going to pay a premium for a Mac, there should be something to differentiate it between the competition besides the privilege to run macOS. Heck, it should have something to differentiate it from the last model! I'll still recommend Macs for my f…

Not just lack of hardware updates, but the lack of complete system categories. It's the height of hypocrisy to tout a green approach to things, while not even offering an upgradable machine, e.g. a tower. All-in-ones like the iMac are usually discarded if either the motherboard or the display goes south, whereas a tower is easily fixed. Also, power users are left out in the cold, with the Mac Pro the only system fitt…

This isn't thinking different, this is thinking backwards. They tried that once, didn't with so well and it was the first thing Jobs reverted when he came back.

Apple knows bit from iOS and OSX that one of their defining advantages cones from their close ties of hardware and software. They won't give that away again.

The drama around the new MBPs is all about price. No idea why they went so high but if they were more in line with with PC pricing there would be very little complaint.

Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#306

Post by jdietrich »

badsock wrote: post #110
dashundchen wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most insane part of this to me, is the inability to upgrade or repair any of the desktop Macs by making them locked down, soldered machines. These are machines meant to sit on a desk. Who cares about shaving off few centimeters of desk space if means you can't replace your RAM or hard disk or video card with off the shelf parts? I find this both anti-user and environmentally unfriendly.

Seriously, if anyone has a technical answer to this I'd love to know what it is. Right now I can't intepret the soldered-on ram in desktops as anything other than a user-hostile cash grab.

Cash grab. Apple charge $1200 to upgrade from 16GB to 64GB in the Mac Pro. The retail price for 64GB of ECC DDR3 is $530. The markups on processor upgrades are similarly high.

Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#307

Post by ewzimm »

mrpippy wrote: post #290
ewzimm wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Going by benchmark aggregates from PassMark. 2860QM: http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i7-2860QM... 6700HQ: http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i7-6700HQ... 6920HQ: http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i7-6920HQ...

Interesting. For comparison, Geekbench 4 single/multi-core results (from https://browser.primatelabs.com/mac-benchmarks ): MacBook Pro (17-inch Late 2011, i7-2860QM): 3180 / 9593 MacBook Pro (15-inch Late 2016, i7-6700HQ): 3968 (+24%) / 12189 (+27%) MacBook Pro (15-inch Late 2016, i7-6820HQ): 4093 (+29%) / 12883 (+26%)

Nice comparison, thanks. I wanted to stress "about" since no benchmark is going to be identical to real world performance.

Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#308

Post by zeusk »

dbg31415 wrote: post #39
beat wrote: post #16

My main computer is a five year old 17" MBP. I've upgraded it to the max and done repairs to maintain it. I need the computational power - I use it for programming, photo editing at scale, and recording/mixing music. It would cost me $3000 to replace it with a computer that is not significantly more powerful, has a smaller screen and less I/O functionality, and would be incompatible with my audio interface unless I d…

> It would cost me $3000 to replace it with a computer that is not significantly more powerful, has a smaller screen and less I/O functionality, and would be incompatible with my audio interface unless I daisy-chain multiple adapters to get Firewire. Fuck that, as long as possible. To be fair, with the new Macs you still get to daisy chain adapters... Here's the thing, nobody can take away how great the Macs we have…

--- 2016 Razer Blade ($2,099)

16 GB System Memory (DDR4, 2133 MHz)

NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 1060 (6GB GDDR5 VRAM)

Intel® Core i7-6700HQ Quad-Core Processor (2.6GHz / 3.5GHz)

256GB (PCIe M.2) options for 512/1024

14.0-in. IGZO QHD+, 3200x1800, capacitive multi-touch

http://www.razerzone.com/store/razer-blade#QHD+%20-%20256GB

What you linked to isn't 2016 Blade.

Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#309

Post by decker »

badsock wrote: post #110
dashundchen wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most insane part of this to me, is the inability to upgrade or repair any of the desktop Macs by making them locked down, soldered machines. These are machines meant to sit on a desk. Who cares about shaving off few centimeters of desk space if means you can't replace your RAM or hard disk or video card with off the shelf parts? I find this both anti-user and environmentally unfriendly.

Seriously, if anyone has a technical answer to this I'd love to know what it is. Right now I can't intepret the soldered-on ram in desktops as anything other than a user-hostile cash grab.

Soldering down the ram uses less vertical space (thinner laptop by a few mm) and less planar space (smaller PCB). This lets them make the laptop marginally thinner and have more space for other things (mainly batteries). If you look at the smallest form factors in consumer electronics (cell phones for example), nearly everything is soldered to one board in pursuit of reducing size. Realistically, Apple would not be able to make their laptops as thin as they are without doing this. That being said, it does provide them with the nice side effect of being able to extract incredible margins on hardware upgrades.

Edit: Missed the point that we are talking about desktops, same idea still exists, it lets you make the form factor smaller and it requires less space since you don't need the connectors and you can be a bit more creative with the chip layout.

Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#310

Post by jdietrich »

lmm wrote: post #202
badsock wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously, if anyone has a technical answer to this I'd love to know what it is. Right now I can't intepret the soldered-on ram in desktops as anything other than a user-hostile cash grab.

It probably lets them reuse more of the same assembly line/processes for desktops/laptops/tablets.

The Mac Pro is made in the USA; the rest of Apple's product line is made in China. There is already considerable hand-assembly in the Mac Pro; the additional step of installing socketed RAM would add no more than a few cents in cost.

Using soldered RAM in the Mac Pro is transparently user-hostile. It serves no purpose other than to depress the used market and allow Apple to charge a huge premium for extra RAM.

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