How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists • Hacker News Board

Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#431

Post by davidf18 » Wed, Dec 21, 2016, 12:26 AM UTC

akamaka wrote: post #417

davidf18 wrote: post #75

Admittedly, for my needs the 15" models are not great. Writing and some computer programming/big data. I prefer longer battery life and a lighter/smaller 15" unit. The new unit claims to have about 2 hours more battery life than the 2015 model (see tables of battery life near end) [1]. Also important to me is nearby Apple stores to get my Mac problems looked into if I need it. Could somebody please be specific as to…

The new model is not improving CPU performance ( https://browser.primatelabs.com/mac-benchmarks ). Also, losing the escape key is painful, and I still frequently use devices that don't have USB-C connectors. I did an all-around comparison and chose to buy last year's model instead. I can't think of a previous occasion when a new Apple product was worse for me than the one that it replaces.

I own the 2015 basic 15" model and it is a great machine.

The 2016 model consumes much less energy for the same performance (see link in my post above) and the SSD speed (esp. in >= 512 GB models) is much faster. It also has built-in hardware X.265 decode (IIRC) so watching those movies will require less energy than the 2015 as well.

Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#432

Post by kristianp » Wed, Dec 21, 2016, 12:31 AM UTC

kruipen wrote: post #65

electic wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did take a close look at the Surface Pro. Sorry, the build quality is nowhere near a MacBook Pro. Secondly, I found the touch screen very gimmicky. I tried using it for a week and found that my hand just hurt lifting it up repeatedly and also hated switching context from the keyboard to the screen. Not to mention, the screen was full of smudge marks after awhile. To be honest, I really found myself using the keyboa…

The touch screen on the Surface has one killer application: scrolling while reading. It's very natural to scroll content with a thumb on the edge of the screen.

This is in tablet "mode" right? Otherwise it would be easier to use a two-finger scroll on the touchpad (for me anyway).

Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#433

Post by riprowan » Wed, Dec 21, 2016, 12:32 AM UTC

cookiecaper wrote: post #101

weaksauce wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lack of affordable storage in the retina and up laptops and even desktops has been a deal breaker for me. I am on a five year old mbp and am seriously considering a hackintosh to be a daily driver. That's a whole big can of worms though.

Can you identify specifically the critical features of OS X that aren't replicable with a reasonable amount of effort on other systems? I've spent considerable time using all 3 major OSes as daily drivers and while each platform has perks, I've never felt a strong commitment to OS X for daily use. I'm curious what many people feel is so crucial about it that they'd consider switching to the massively unstable Hackint…

>the critical features of OS X that aren't replicable with a reasonable amount of effort on other systems?

the apps

Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#434

Post by matthewmacleod » Wed, Dec 21, 2016, 12:33 AM UTC

will_hughes wrote: post #407

matthewmacleod wrote: post #402

I've started to wonder if I'm the only one who isn't understanding the problem in general. The MacBook is fine – the new models are quite expensive, and I'm sure having to carry some dongles could be annoying, but it's a lovely machine and there are obvious reasons and long-term benefits for those choices. I'll definitely consider purchasing one when the next refresh allows the processor and memory options to be bump…

I'm not a Mac user, but having listened to friends who are, their complaints fall into: - so many dongles required (ethernet, Adapters to HDMI, DVI, etc, sdcard readers, USB C to USB A, and another one to get their iPhone to connect) - some of them need to be genuine Apple to get decent performance, and those are all hideously expensive. - lack of ram (tops out at 16GB even on 15" model) - not the best battery life A…

That's an interesting point, and it tallies with what I've heard.

I'll give Apple a pass on the RAM, which AFAIK was down to unavailability of Kaby Lake. Probably better to get the machines out, and bump them when Kaby Lake is available.

The dongle thing is a worse situation. While I appreciate the steps taken by Apple, it does seem like the whole malarkey could have been avoided with the inclusion of a couple of basically free USB-C to USB-A converters. I reckon the general dongle story is going to be much nicer soon, when there are more multi-port adapters available and more devices (including the iPhone) are supplied with USB-C cables.

Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#435

Post by snovv_crash » Wed, Dec 21, 2016, 12:38 AM UTC

woah wrote: post #241

beat wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This Luddite has rather a lot of money invested in a professional grade audio interface. Replacing it with modern connectivity would be upwards of a thousand dollars. Ouch. And it works perfectly. Why am I throwing away hardware that I like and trust for the relentless march to the future? Any recording interface more substantial than a headphone jack is wired. It's going to remain that way for a while. Audio is a qu…

What's the big issue with slapping a USB c adapter onto your audio interface and considering it a $30 upgrade? USB c is objectively better.

Look up the latency in the USB specs. There is a reason that professional audio equipment used FireWire. Thunderbolt is better, and there is some equipment available for it, but frankly it is overkill. And even then it only works with some USB-C ports, with some cables.

Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#436

Post by riprowan » Wed, Dec 21, 2016, 12:41 AM UTC

spott wrote: post #365

What is going on with Apple and management? It seems like they are struggling to put enough manpower behind their many different hardware (MacBook, iPhone, iPad, Mac Pro, etc) and software (iOS, MacOS, tvOS, pro software, etc) to make sure they stay up to date, but I'm not sure why they aren't just throwing more manpower at it. Honestly, a team that did nothing but update the MacPro every few months with the latest h…

> Honestly, a team that did nothing but update the MacPro every few months with the latest hardware can't cost that much, especially compared to Apple's coffers. Unless they are so blinded by the need to have huge margins. They don't need to change the industrial design for every iteration.

I think you hit the nail on the head there.

I bet everyone on this thread would have been happy if Apple had just revved the Macbook Air and Macbook Pro lines instead of rolling out a whole new product concept in the MB and MBP:

MBA 11" & 13" - rev the guts, upgrade to Retina display w/thinner bezels, upgrade Thunderbolt port to USB-C / Lightning

MBP 13" & 15" - rev the guts, upgrade Thunderbolt to USB-C / Lightning

No new MB or MBP redesigns needed. Tons of money saved. Happy customers.

Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#437

Post by jjoonathan » Wed, Dec 21, 2016, 12:44 AM UTC

foxhill wrote: post #371

jjoonathan wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How I long for the day when I can configure the subnet mask of my mouse, the mDNS settings of my graphics card, and the routing table of my PCH! (Yes, sarcasm. Two can play.)

ethernet has as much to do with TCP/IP and DNS as does radio waves with FM radio. ethernet is a wire protocol upon which a TCP/IP stack runs on top of. if USB looked a lot more like ethernet, it would be far easier to write drivers for devices.

USB and PCIe are not layer 2 protocols, they're vertical over layers 1-6 so I filled in the blanks of the proposal, such as it was. If you want to pick nits, do it with bsder, comparing the two is his idea.

> it would be far easier to write drivers for devices

I can only assume this comes from a place of "I know a bit about ethernet and would like to transfer that knowledge to the embedded space." It certainly doesn't come from a place of "I write drivers for the USB and PCIe stacks and think ethernet would make my job easier."

There's also the matter of what HW/FW likes, which probably has greater bearing on the situation than what SW likes, and I can assure you that they'd be even less enthusiastic about the replacement than I am. Proof: they've got a choice! If they wanted to use ethernet, they could just do it. They don't. For good reason.

Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#438

Post by thebaer » Wed, Dec 21, 2016, 12:44 AM UTC

johnsmith21006 wrote: post #424

wutbrodo wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I've heard, throwing Linux in it works really well from a compatibility standpoint (and obviously doesn't require a Google account). I believe Linus was using a pixel as his dev laptop some time back.

There's s two ways to use Linux. You can load something called Crouton which runs inside of ChromeOS and basically exposes Linux. But this method everything goes away on reboot. Maybe way to fix. The other is to replace ChromeOS with Linux. No different from buying a Windows laptop and replacing Windows with Linux.

Crouton doesn't necessarily go away on reboot. You just have to consistently boot into Developer Mode to keep it (and the rest of your data). You just get a warning and the option to do so each time it boots. That's how I've been doing it, though I hardly ever shut the thing down.

Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#439

Post by jjoonathan » Wed, Dec 21, 2016, 12:45 AM UTC

rbanffy wrote: post #370

jjoonathan wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How I long for the day when I can configure the subnet mask of my mouse, the mDNS settings of my graphics card, and the routing table of my PCH! (Yes, sarcasm. Two can play.)

You know using IP is not a requirement for using Ethernet.

Yes, I do.

Re: How Apple Alienated Mac Loyalists

#440

Post by jc4p » Wed, Dec 21, 2016, 12:45 AM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #77

beat wrote: post #16

My main computer is a five year old 17" MBP. I've upgraded it to the max and done repairs to maintain it. I need the computational power - I use it for programming, photo editing at scale, and recording/mixing music. It would cost me $3000 to replace it with a computer that is not significantly more powerful, has a smaller screen and less I/O functionality, and would be incompatible with my audio interface unless I d…

> My main computer is a five year old 17" MBP. I've upgraded it to the max and done repairs to maintain it. I need the computational power - I use it for programming, photo editing at scale, and recording/mixing music. It would cost me $3000 to replace it with a computer that is not significantly more powerful Compared to a five year old 17"? More like double the power. And unbelievably faster SSD (even if you have a…

I notice that you quoted this part:

> I've upgraded it to the max and done repairs to maintain it.

but didn't mention it in your retort to the rest of that paragraph.

You can't upgrade the new macbooks. I am typing this from a 2015 Macbook Pro Retina, I bought it with the biggest hard drive they offered at the time, and am currently doing development off a thunderbolt hard drive. Do you know how much that sucks?

I would do anything to be able to just open up my computer and pop in more RAM or a bigger SSD, like I used to do with my matte 15" macbook. That macbook lasted me so long, and so many RAM upgrades / network card installations (for Bluetooth 4.0) / etc etc.

I've been using this computer for almost three years, I have have to go through a lot of trouble to do my work on it (I work at a .NET shop), and I'm strongly considering just getting a Windows 10 laptop instead of dealing with this mess. It sucks to have to carry around a hard drive for my SQL back-ups because I can't upgrade the hard drive in my computer.