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Uber's Loss Exceeds $800M in Q3 on $1.7B in Net Revenue

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Re: Uber's Loss Exceeds $800M in Q3 on $1.7B in Net Revenue

#351

Post by akarambir »

Naritai wrote: post #296
MarkMc wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uber has network effects too. Facebook has friends, Uber has drivers. You certainly care how many drivers the Taxi company has because it affects the time you have to wait to be picked up.

This is addressed elsewhere on this thread, but I'll repeat: drivers have no compunction about having multiple apps open at the same time. Nothing ties them to Uber.

In India at least, Uber is asking drivers to do ~5hrs shifts at a time. Or they cut the amount given to drivers. This is due to fierce competition from Ola, Meru and other cab companies.

Not sure, when they will just have to accept that those drivers are their employees(maybe a lawsuit is needed in India as well).

Re: Uber's Loss Exceeds $800M in Q3 on $1.7B in Net Revenue

#352

Post by mrweasel »

sah2ed wrote: post #336
Fnoord wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no clue what Otto is, never heard of that brand. As far as I'm concerned its a first name. However, you getting laughed at saying: > That said, Google is a software company ..is because Google is not primarily a software company. Google is first and foremost an advertising (or 'profiling') company which uses whatever tool (software, hardware, service, complete stack) at their disposal to increase profit derive…

Google is indeed a software company the same reason why the "big 4" firms are considering accounting firms. All the big 4 accounting firms have HR, legal, PR people, in addition accountants but the reason why they are called accounting firms is because accountants dominate their hiring. In other words, accountants make up the bulk of the people in their revenue centers. Same with Google: they hire a lot of software e…

>they hire a lot of software engineers that contribute directly to their revenue.

As engineers that how we'd like to view the world, but that's not how accounting and business management work. Those engineers are a cost, nothing more. The sale of ads is Google primary source of income. The fact that engineers had to build the tools and platform for selling those ads is irrelevant. The technical stuff is "done" at this point, and now the sales people need sell enough inventory to make up the cost of production.

Even if you're a pure software company, one that sells software, the developers are still a cost, that does not directly contribute to revenue, only the sales department does.

Logically it's a bit silly, because you need to build stuff to sell it, but that's not how account and management view the world.

Re: Uber's Loss Exceeds $800M in Q3 on $1.7B in Net Revenue

#353

Post by nazka »

WhitneyLand wrote: post #200
nazka wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is. It's a war of cash against other companies. The same way the OPEC has been dumping oil on the market to make its price crash to break competitors. So with a price at the barrel two times lower that their break even, oil companies in particular the US shale companies [1], will suffer or even declare bankruptcy and then the OPEC would have got their market share back and then would have raise its price like in 2…

Whoa there that's very different business. In oil there are huge barriers to entry and big costs to ramp down and ramp back up production. If Uber ever tries to raise prices too high competitors wil swarm into the market.

Yes but on a simple point of view: the strategy, dynamic, and end results are the same here. And it's the same for oil companies too. With the price starting to go up with the cut from OPEC and other countries, more oil companies start to be created, the old ones have finally more air to breath and start to drill again.

Also with Uber investing on autonomous cars and how they are the only one with real tests with several cars on the road, this is going to be a huge barrier of entry. Even more when we see how the best tech giants like Apple and Google are struggling to develop one.

Re: Uber's Loss Exceeds $800M in Q3 on $1.7B in Net Revenue

#354

Post by chrisseaton »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #232
mjevans wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One advantage Uber has over the app you mention is that it's in many (most) cities. You only need /one/ app and one place to go to get fulfillment. The network effect is not insubstantial.

How terrible. Having to spend 1-2 minutes downloading an app. Expect Austin to occur elsewhere (Uber and Lyft leaving due to local regulation, and competitors filling the void).

It's not the 1-2 minutes to download it, it's when I roll off a flight into some new city I've never been to before, how do I know what app to use?

Re: Uber's Loss Exceeds $800M in Q3 on $1.7B in Net Revenue

#355

Post by toasted »

Off-topic - but currently in India and the uber experience is absolutely amazing.

The handful of times we have used taxi drivers, none of them can find the place where we are staying even with written directions in english and in hindi or even with a hindi speaking person instructing them via the phone. There is always some niggle over pricing and whatever you pay them they claim you are shortchanging them.

With uber they go to the right place EVERY TIME, there is no haggling at all, they dont try to angle for tips but are very grateful if they get tipped. It is a complete gamechanger for travel in these areas.

Re: Uber's Loss Exceeds $800M in Q3 on $1.7B in Net Revenue

#356

Post by kahnpro »

matt_wulfeck wrote: post #261
anexprogrammer wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quite a few of the cab firms did - many used the same app skinned for each taxi co. I forget who made it now.

Yes but you needed a different app for each taxi company. That's a terrible experience.

And guess what Uber and Lyft are? Two different taxi companies with two different apps. I'm not sure what you think has changed here?

Re: Uber's Loss Exceeds $800M in Q3 on $1.7B in Net Revenue

#357

Post by mrweasel »

animex wrote: post #167

Uber will be a dead Unicorn in the medium future. They've got too many legal pressures, competitors with native advantages (i.e. the automakers), and their expansion plans have them overextended. Here in Edmonton, AB, Canada, regulatory changes have pushed the Uber prices to almost 2x during non-surge times over regular taxis. Taxi's have stepped up. Local competitors have sprouted. Carshares are abounding. It's all…

I think Uber is learning that there aren't actually that much money to be made by driving people around. Regardless to the taxi business being heavily control be special interests groups and taxi lobby, medalion systems and what-not, taxi drivers aren't exactly millionaires.

I believe that Uber miscalculated the total sum of money in the "taxi-ride"-pool.

Re: Uber's Loss Exceeds $800M in Q3 on $1.7B in Net Revenue

#358

Post by moogly »

matt_wulfeck wrote: post #261
anexprogrammer wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quite a few of the cab firms did - many used the same app skinned for each taxi co. I forget who made it now.

Yes but you needed a different app for each taxi company. That's a terrible experience.

So you are advocating a world-wide taxi monopoly?

Re: Uber's Loss Exceeds $800M in Q3 on $1.7B in Net Revenue

#359

Post by onion2k »

deepnotderp wrote: post #259
jeffdavis wrote: post #253

Sincere question: what protects Uber from competition enough to imply huge profits in the future? Network effects don't seem that strong. People will download an app to save money, and drivers will download an app to make money. It doesn't cause any major inconvenience. In fact, it seems like a market that may approach perfect competition in a matter of years. There are only two companies now because there are only t…

Self driving cars change everything.

The headline figure is net of driver costs. They had a revenue of $1.7b, and a loss of $800m, after paying their drivers. Doesn't that mean that if the cost of the drivers was $0 they'd still have made this loss?

Re: Uber's Loss Exceeds $800M in Q3 on $1.7B in Net Revenue

#360

Post by canuckintime »

mrweasel wrote: post #352
sah2ed wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google is indeed a software company the same reason why the "big 4" firms are considering accounting firms. All the big 4 accounting firms have HR, legal, PR people, in addition accountants but the reason why they are called accounting firms is because accountants dominate their hiring. In other words, accountants make up the bulk of the people in their revenue centers. Same with Google: they hire a lot of software e…

>they hire a lot of software engineers that contribute directly to their revenue. As engineers that how we'd like to view the world, but that's not how accounting and business management work. Those engineers are a cost, nothing more. The sale of ads is Google primary source of income. The fact that engineers had to build the tools and platform for selling those ads is irrelevant. The technical stuff is "done" at thi…

>The sale of ads is Google primary source of income

No, the sale of AD SPACE is Google's primary source of income. And that AD SPACE is primarily in Google's own software products (Search, Mail, Maps etc) although of course they've built a platform for others to sell related ad space...

>the developers are still a cost, that does not directly contribute to revenue, only the sales department does. Logically it's a bit silly, because you need to build stuff to sell it, but that's not how account and management view the world.

The recent season of Silicon Valley had a hilarious arc depicting this thinking. But it's important to note that not all business organizations maintain that philosophy

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