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Uber's Loss Exceeds $800M in Q3 on $1.7B in Net Revenue

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Re: Uber's Loss Exceeds $800M in Q3 on $1.7B in Net Revenue

#251

Post by untog »

morgante wrote: post #250
untog wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To put it the other way around, why not care? In NYC Juno is no more expensive than Uber (in fact there's a promo rate on right now), so if I have the option, why wouldn't I choose the option that does best by the person driving me around in their car? Even if I were entirely selfish it wouldn't be in my interests for them to be stressed and rushing to cram in as many jobs as they can.

Juno has a substantially smaller driver pool. Whenever I get a ride, I always check all 3 and Juno is almost always much further out.

Interesting, in Brooklyn I don't have that experience at all. Uber probably has more drivers overall, but Juno is usually 3-4 mins away.

Re: Uber's Loss Exceeds $800M in Q3 on $1.7B in Net Revenue

#252

Post by joatmon-snoo »

peller wrote: post #94
6t6t6t6 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIK, this is called "Dumping the market". And it should not be legal...

(IANAL) I don't think it's legal, but "it can be difficult to prove that prices dropped because of deliberate predatory pricing rather than legitimate price competition. In any case, competitors may be driven out of the market before the case is ever heard."[0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predatory_pricing

> it can be difficult

Thorny legal issues in a nutshell ;)

Re: Uber's Loss Exceeds $800M in Q3 on $1.7B in Net Revenue

#253

Post by jeffdavis »

Sincere question: what protects Uber from competition enough to imply huge profits in the future?

Network effects don't seem that strong. People will download an app to save money, and drivers will download an app to make money. It doesn't cause any major inconvenience.

In fact, it seems like a market that may approach perfect competition in a matter of years. There are only two companies now because there are only two companies willing to lose money. After they start making money, that could change quickly.

Re: Uber's Loss Exceeds $800M in Q3 on $1.7B in Net Revenue

#254

Post by jimmywanger »

quickben wrote: post #238
jimmywanger wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Many people here would dodge Uber if they expect surge pricing Notice that they've stopped displaying the surge price multiple on their hail screen. Previously I would have hesitated at 1.4x surge, but now "fares are slightly higher due to increased demand" just makes me shrug my shoulders.

Yeah, but slightly can be high. They had a bit of anti advertising here after 8.9x surge: http://globalnews.ca/news/2430713/alberta-man-furious-over-1... Ended up all over the news. Not sure if Uber caps surge in Canada now.

> Yeah, but slightly can be high.

You misunderstand me. That's the verbiage they display now. "fares are slightly higher due to increased demand", rather than the actual surge multiplier. If the surge multiplier is higher than that, it'll say something to the effect "fares are a lot higher due to high demand". It doesn't tell you the exact multiplier anymore, which makes me at least a bit more price insensitive.

Re: Uber's Loss Exceeds $800M in Q3 on $1.7B in Net Revenue

#255

Post by repsilat »

swingbridge wrote: post #205
Apocryphon wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hasn't Amazon been losing money for a long time?

No, they are profitable. In fact AWS is wildly profitable.

AWS is wildly profitable, but Amazon as a whole isn't consistently making profits. They've been in the black lately, but that's largely just to keep up appearances. Who knows of they'll choose to carry on that way. They certainly haven't "turned on the tap" yet, though (as always) they could choose to whenever they want.

TBH I think profit is a terrible metric for them. Profit measures cash, and why does Amazon want cash? To buy back shares? To pay dividends? No. We should measure Amazon by annual growth of book value.

Re: Uber's Loss Exceeds $800M in Q3 on $1.7B in Net Revenue

#256

Post by antiviral »

pfarnsworth wrote: post #240
antiviral wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By 'background check' I mean a process that the local govt. believes is necessary based on experience and past incidents, not something that someone at Uber came up with randomly. "News of assaults by ride-hailing drivers has been a frequent occurrence. Reports of rape, battery and harassment have grabbed headlines in California, Georgia, Illinois, Texas, Washington, Florida and many other states. While some of these…

Have you bothered searching the incidences of taxi drivers attacking their customers? No, you'll just take whatever is spoonfed to you from the media, I guess.

If you don't like CNET, here are a few hundred more 'incidents' involving Uber and also Lyft drivers, the most recent one being a kidnapping on 12/14/16:

http://www.whosdrivingyou.org/rideshare-incidents

Why are you so invested in ignoring what's right in front of you?

Re: Uber's Loss Exceeds $800M in Q3 on $1.7B in Net Revenue

#257

Post by aetherson »

intrasight wrote: post #212
colechristensen wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reckless and non-viable in much of the world. Nobody is going to get an autonomous car working in a winter climate for a long time. Lines on the road can't be seen, there are potholes, driving through deep piles of snow are common, communicating with other drivers and accomidating and anticipating their actions in snow narrowed streets is necessary.... There are plenty of times of year where I'd be wary trusting a hu…

Uber autonomous doesn't have to be better than the best human drivers in all conditions. They only have to be much better than the average human driver in all conditions. This isn't a very high threshold to meet.

It IS a high threshold to meet. People on HN handwave it all the time, but the fact is that not only are driverless cars still less capable than human drivers, they're also less safe today. And if you believe that that will change in the very new future, your belief is essentially faith.

Re: Uber's Loss Exceeds $800M in Q3 on $1.7B in Net Revenue

#258

Post by anexprogrammer »

hackerboos wrote: post #236
TheSageMage wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... and that exactly what the Taxi industry should do, step up. Not just in price, but in technology. IMO the best feature of Uber is the app and transparency like features of taking a trip. If I can pull the app up, input where I am and where I want to go, how much it will cost, and when my driver will be here, I'm happy. The few experiences I've had with local Taxi systems, coming from a everyone-drives-a-car subur…

Meh in Liverpool, UK our local cab firm Delta had an app out before Uber/Hailo were on the scene. Features were pretty much on par with Uber.

Quite a few of the cab firms did - many used the same app skinned for each taxi co. I forget who made it now.

Re: Uber's Loss Exceeds $800M in Q3 on $1.7B in Net Revenue

#259

Post by deepnotderp »

jeffdavis wrote: post #253

Sincere question: what protects Uber from competition enough to imply huge profits in the future? Network effects don't seem that strong. People will download an app to save money, and drivers will download an app to make money. It doesn't cause any major inconvenience. In fact, it seems like a market that may approach perfect competition in a matter of years. There are only two companies now because there are only t…

Self driving cars change everything.

Re: Uber's Loss Exceeds $800M in Q3 on $1.7B in Net Revenue

#260

Post by cderwin »

mjevans wrote: post #224
henrikschroder wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some have already done it, Taxi Stockholm has a very nice app; enter pickup and destination, book it, track it, pay through it, etc. And they're marketing themselves by stressing all the things they provide that Uber doesn't. You get a licensed, properly insured taxi driver in a nice car.

One advantage Uber has over the app you mention is that it's in many (most) cities. You only need /one/ app and one place to go to get fulfillment. The network effect is not insubstantial.

Most people use Uber almost entirely in a single city. This is obviously not true for those who travel a lot, but for most people they only need a single app (whether or not it be Uber) for their home city.

The real advantage Uber has is brand trust when taxis go back to their shady and anti-competitive business practices and the regulatory environment relaxes. The important question is if brand trust will be worth anything.

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