I have no side code projects to show • Hacker News Board

Re: I have no side code projects to show

#101

Post by DCoder » Sat, Dec 17, 2016, 5:14 AM UTC

eps wrote: post #10

rabidrat wrote: post #4

I want to work in a group where they appreciate that I was basically born to code. That despite my youthful features, I have still been coding for over 30 years. That I can do many tasks in an hour, that other people would take days to do. That I will spend an extra 3 hours to put a cherry on top, just because I can. I may even do it on a Saturday, because code is what I like to do with my spare time too. So when the…

The range/xrange question was likely to check if you were a fraud. Having interviewed close to a hundred people in a year for a senior C dev position I can assure you that people lie like you wouldn't believe. They cheat with take-home tasks, they show others' code as their own. And that's in the system programming circles, where the level of professionalism is typically much higher than in app/web development areas.…

Web dev chiming in with a similar experience. Last month I interviewed three people claiming multiple years of PHP/MySQL experience, not one of them could tell me what an SQL transaction is.

Re: I have no side code projects to show

#102

Post by jodrellblank » Sat, Dec 17, 2016, 5:15 AM UTC

eridius wrote: post #92

dandv wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[Google owns any IP you develop, even on your own time]( http://startups.stackexchange.com/questions/7822/working-leg... ), and you can't easily work on those interview-worthy side projects after you get hired.

That's not necessarily true. Companies certainly like to advocate for the idea that they automatically own any work you do that's relevant to any of their business interests, even if that work isn't relevant to your particular job. But that doesn't mean it'll hold up in court. Just a couple of days ago I was reading something about how courts regularly side with employees instead of employers in disputes like this, h…

Were you reading it here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13142327 ? There's a couple of mentions of courts siding with employees and courts in California siding with employees.

Re: I have no side code projects to show

#103

Post by logicallee » Sat, Dec 17, 2016, 5:16 AM UTC

fencepost wrote: post #79

logicallee wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi, I was really interested in this story: >A couple of months later, one of the members of the team who had interviewed this guy flew out to where he was working, and discovered that the guy sitting in the cube doing the work was not the guy they had interviewed. It was someone else. This seems absolutely incredible to me (just in the slang sense, I don't mean that I'm incredulous). I mean it's way more than enough…

There have been a few stories over the past few years of people outsourcing their own jobs, but I'm not sure whether any of them have actually been shown to be based in fact. That said, this could be the same kind of thing - did the guy in the cube hire the "guru" to interview, or did the "guru" interview then outsource to the guy in the cube?

oh I didn't even think about that. fraud either way :)

I think outsourcing is one thing - but being an employee who is on payroll and physically shows up to warm a butt in a seat, goes a lot farther. Regardless of whether the cube guy paid someone to do his interview, or the guru hired a body double after getting hired, it's pretty insane. do you have any links to anyplace you read about the same thing?

Re: I have no side code projects to show

#104

Post by dasil003 » Sat, Dec 17, 2016, 5:23 AM UTC

otakucode wrote: post #87

dvcrn wrote: post #13

Here's a little example what happened to me: I interviewed with a company. Naturally they asked for my side projects which I showed them. We talked about technical challenges, scaling, interesting bits of codes - all these kind of things. They were really excited. I passed the interviews and got the job. Fast forward a couple month, still working on my side projects, some of which started generating a couple hundred…

It depends on your point of view. The boss wants the most sophisticated talent he can get, and he doesn't want to pay anything for it. Every penny he pays, and every second of your life he doesn't get for it, is a failure in his eyes. Since the 1980s, employment has become a game. Employers don't like it if you realize this and play them right back, of course, but there's not really any other option. Their viewpoint…

I think this game is much more openly recognized in SV without too much cynicism. The average tenure is probably around 3 years, and people move between companies often. This serves both the employee by diversifying their skillset, and it serves companies by facilitating knowledge transfer for certain techniques, particularly around scaling and operations for larger tech companies that individuals can't get through mere education or even small-scale work.

Consider that we openly talk about Bus Factor as a way of explicitly quantifying the indispensability of certain people; but the solution is not to get rid of them, it's just to train more people on those aspects. Of course there's still some amount of Machiavellian maneuvering, but at least while talent is thin on the ground employees still have enough leverage not to get screwed—not as badly as most non-unionized employees anyway.

Re: I have no side code projects to show

#105

Post by jodrellblank » Sat, Dec 17, 2016, 5:28 AM UTC

mrep wrote: post #100

jknoepfler wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe that. I'd really like a 21st century study showing that devs with > 3 years of experience fail fizz buzz, and that failure is predictive of being a bad developer (and not being a shitty interviewer)

One of my teammates had a phone screen with a guy who didn't know what prime numbers were...

You can't blame them for not keeping up with the latest Amazon offerings.

Re: I have no side code projects to show

#106

Post by eridius » Sat, Dec 17, 2016, 5:30 AM UTC

jodrellblank wrote: post #102

eridius wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not necessarily true. Companies certainly like to advocate for the idea that they automatically own any work you do that's relevant to any of their business interests, even if that work isn't relevant to your particular job. But that doesn't mean it'll hold up in court. Just a couple of days ago I was reading something about how courts regularly side with employees instead of employers in disputes like this, h…

Were you reading it here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13142327 ? There's a couple of mentions of courts siding with employees and courts in California siding with employees.

That's probably it. And I'm in California so I probably only paid attention to that bit.

Re: I have no side code projects to show

#107

Post by dyadic » Sat, Dec 17, 2016, 5:37 AM UTC

jknoepfler wrote: post #24

eps wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The range/xrange question was likely to check if you were a fraud. Having interviewed close to a hundred people in a year for a senior C dev position I can assure you that people lie like you wouldn't believe. They cheat with take-home tasks, they show others' code as their own. And that's in the system programming circles, where the level of professionalism is typically much higher than in app/web development areas.…

On the other hand, I'm a skilled dev with only a smattering of python experience, but if you asked me this question I'd have no idea and wouldn't think twice about looking up the python docs for both. What are you actually asking? P.s. I don't believe anyone actually fails fizz buzz.

Once I failed a programming test on factorial. I was younger and less experienced in interviews than I am now, nerves got the better of me.

I implemented the thing, but with plus in place of multiplication. Before that, I realised I was struggling and asked the interviewer whether it was + or *, that was probably the moment he failed me.

Re: I have no side code projects to show

#108

Post by dasil003 » Sat, Dec 17, 2016, 5:38 AM UTC

TAForObvReasons wrote: post #35

dvcrn wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not stuff the applicant was doing on the "side" during his/her previous years of employment. Am I totally wrong here? Hmm, the way I see it is that side projects usually demonstrate that you have a passion for code outside of your work as well. From a company perspective I would probably also hire someone who is using his free time to advance his knowledge since some of that stuff he is using/learning could also be…

> side projects usually demonstrate that you have a passion for code outside of your work In other industries, these are called "portfolios" or "writing samples". It's not just about showing a passion; it's your chance to make a piece of work that represents your best abilities and judgments. When I interview candidates I find it easier and more constructive to ask design questions about the side projects than to con…

I know what you mean, but it's also easier to fake. I've definitely run into the situation where someone's projects look good, but then they are terrible on the job. I'm left to conclude they were pairing with someone more knowledgeable or cloning some idea or maybe has spent years preparing to tackle that one problem and are not good in general problem solving.

Not saying you won't get a lot of false negatives with high-pressure on-site coding or whiteboarding, but if done correctly I think it's probably the most signal you can get for the least time. Granted it requires good judgement from the interviewer, and a lot of candidates to calibrate. It's also unfair to candidates who are easily rattled, and biased towards candidates who have time to do a lot of preparation. In the past I have preferred contract-to-hire as the gold standard if that works for a candidate, but that only works if the pipeline is small.

Re: I have no side code projects to show

#109

Post by dasil003 » Sat, Dec 17, 2016, 5:42 AM UTC

wfunction wrote: post #20

dvcrn wrote: post #13

Here's a little example what happened to me: I interviewed with a company. Naturally they asked for my side projects which I showed them. We talked about technical challenges, scaling, interesting bits of codes - all these kind of things. They were really excited. I passed the interviews and got the job. Fast forward a couple month, still working on my side projects, some of which started generating a couple hundred…

> If your company wants to see side projects but dislikes the idea of you actually working on them after starting, you are doing something wrong. My impression was they generally want to see side projects for newbies/recent graduates, i.e. stuff the applicant would have been working on during college or something. Not stuff the applicant was doing on the "side" during his/her previous years of employment. Am I totall…

Anecdata: I'm currently in the middle of interviewing with a wide slate of mid-size SV companies, and not one has asked for code samples. It's all a mix of whiteboarding, on-site coding, phone-screen coding, or take-home coding.

So at least for 15-year veterans it does not really seem to be much of a thing. Although I do secretly wish they would discover my 4-digit GitHub user id, that's gotta be worth some kinda programmer-cred right?

Re: I have no side code projects to show

#110

Post by nicolia » Sat, Dec 17, 2016, 5:46 AM UTC

citruspi wrote: post #90

nicolia wrote: post #8

I actually don't mind being a human machine. Not that I've had the chance yet. I'm still in college to get my CS degree and would fall into one of those people where "coding is a Craft". I genuinely love programming. I don't have a family, or really desire one. My weekend plans always consist of building another project of my own. A place that will let me code all day, give me a nap room, a shower, some salary, and f…

> I actually don't mind being a human machine. > My weekend plans always consist of building another project of my own. A place that will let me code all day, give me a nap room, a shower, some salary, and food sounds like a dream. So what, you don't have any other hobbies?

Of course I do. I like painting, and photography, and history, and sketching. But most of the time (since I'm in school) I'm working on projects on the weekend. It boosts my portfolio and hones my skills.