I tell a lot of younger developers this, because it's an important truth that will never, ever be spoken aloud. The sole role of Human Resources is to protect the company from liability, either through lawsuits or labor law compliance. Occasionally managers will abdicate their duty and delegate parts of hiring authority to a section of the company with no understanding of what they do and no accountability for gettin…
Harassment at Apple: A personal perspective
431–440 of 692 posts
Re: Harassment at Apple: A personal perspective
#432However, a group of other male coworkers who resented the attention I received started directing inappropriate and misogynistic remarks towards me. That statement totally reminds me of accounts I've read of conservatives and how they feel about minorities get special treatment. I just find it really interesting that groups in power react this way while they are still in power. It's a very, very foreign thing to me an…
Individuals tend to do it when they perceive themselves to be in, or in danger of being in, less of a position of power and privilege than they expect. Members of groups that are, or have recently, in positions of relative power have correspondingly higher expectations as a fairly direct result of membership in such a group.
Re: Harassment at Apple: A personal perspective
#433Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think part of the problem is that it's hard (or impossible) to tell how much someone is exaggerating on the internet. Sometimes the answer really is "toughen up" because what they're experiencing is really nothing. Other times, it really is a horrible situation and people should be fired for it.
That's never the answer. Why is it that it's ok to not treat some people with basic human dignity and respect?
Assuming the former: It is entirely possible to misinterpret friendly ribbing or banter as something far more malicious. To assume the worst of someone who genuinely means no harm, and to suggest they should be punished, censored, and shunned. "Toughen up" is perhaps not quite the right phrasing here: It's asking people to perhaps extend the basic human dignity and respect you request of others, to others. Where, perhaps, simply asking them firmly to knock it off, explaining you are finding their jokes hurtful, and giving them the chance to change their behavior, is perhaps more appropriate than forming an internet lynch mob based on assumptions of malice. Treating the other person as a person capable of mistakes or being misunderstood, instead of a gremlin to simply assume the worst of.
Assuming the latter: Sometimes you simply can't work through the problem. They may be a toxic individual - they may simply be driven to toxic behavior at this job (perhaps they hate it) - perhaps it's simply a matter of deciding who you're going to keep between two people who simply cannot get along with each other, to the point of causing problems for the rest of the team. Assuming you can fix their issues when they can't isn't treating them with dignity or respect. Leaving the situation to fester and drag on isn't treating the rest of your team with dignity and respect. Firing one or both of them might not be treating them with dignity and respect either - but you've only so many options. But just because you're firing someone doesn't mean you can't at least strive to do so. Wish them well on their next venture, and mean it.
Re: Harassment at Apple: A personal perspective
#434My brother, as a manager of a big team in Belgium, had once to face a complain to the HR about he harassing a secretary. The reaction of the company was immediate, and in my opinion the right one. They contracted a specialize company to investigate, collect the facts and present their conclusions. The conclusions would be sent at the same time to the alleged victim, the HR and the manager. In this case the conclusion…
The idea that a contractor is going to be unbiased when they're getting paid by the corporation is sort of absurd. They know where their bread is buttered, and it's not from employees filing complaints.
Re: Harassment at Apple: A personal perspective
#435Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think you are just demanding that she presents the whole story in excruciating detail so you can pick over it. I think it was smart of her not to do that, and I think that we should generally assume that women are capable of figuring out when they're being harassed. I see nothing odd in her leaving out direct quotations. She's telling us about a problem. She's not submitting evidence to a tribunal. However much det…
What if someone posted an accusation about something you said, with scant detail and no direct quote? "One day, foldr jumped to my defense at a team event, in an awkward display of sexism." You don't feel like there should have been a quote of what you said? Or lacking that, a little more detail as to why jumping to her defense was sexist? Like, that you defended her by saying the team should lay off because she's fe…
Re: Harassment at Apple: A personal perspective
#436I think commenters who are reacting negatively to this story are reacting to the vocabulary rather than the story. Obviously I'm not a witness, but I tend to believe that these events took place more or less as the author describes them. At the same time, words like "sexism" and phrases like "as a minority..." are a big turn-off to some readers, myself included. This isn't because I don't believe in racism/sexism/xen…
I actually agree about the (mis)labeling - I was not consciously doing it, if it makes a difference. It is something I will be cognizant of in the future. My point was to simply say that there is more to managing harassment than is presently being addressed. I have to work with men all my life, and I cannot do that if I start making them uncomfortable now ! This is the problem with this situation to begin with - it i…
Re: Harassment at Apple: A personal perspective
#437Earlier quoted context omitted.
I tend to informally address mixed gender groups as "you guys," and I know that bugs some people. Unfortunately I can't think of any better gender neutral terms that maintain the informal feeling. Sometimes I wish I was southern so I could get away with "y'all." It's such a useful term, but it sounds so wrong coming from my north eastern accent.
Folks. People. Both perfectly fine terms.
"Many of the spectacular car bombings and killings you see are as a result of al Qaeda — the very same folks that attacked us on September the 11th."
People works in some contexts, but has problems in others.
Note the difference:
> What are you guys up to?
Versus
> What are you people up to?
The first is fine. The second gets you a visit from HR.
EDIT: And to get back to my earlier point, "What are y'all up to?" is friendly and casual. The problem is that I sound as natural as someone's dad trying to rap when I say it.
Re: Harassment at Apple: A personal perspective
#438I think commenters who are reacting negatively to this story are reacting to the vocabulary rather than the story. Obviously I'm not a witness, but I tend to believe that these events took place more or less as the author describes them. At the same time, words like "sexism" and phrases like "as a minority..." are a big turn-off to some readers, myself included. This isn't because I don't believe in racism/sexism/xen…
The vocabulary is absolutely flawed. These are very bold claims which need to be backed up with facts. For instance, the behavior is clearly spelled out here: One day, one of my supervisors jumped to my defense at a team event, in an awkward display of sexism. OP explains how she felt and tells us exactly what action caused her to feel that way. However: The group started insinuating... They also made remarks implyin…
Re: Harassment at Apple: A personal perspective
#439Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree with the distinction you're making, but I don't see at all how it supports the "almost never teasing" lead-in. I'm making a general point, and there are plenty of workplaces where "different subjects and people laugh at themselves also" is a perfectly good summary. I also agree that teasing really shouldn't tread on race/sex/etc - even if it's innocently meant it can easily be a topic too raw for human, and t…
I think they way you know it's "almost never teasing" is that these people are not friends, they are co-workers.
I look at the world today and despite an absolutely massive improvement in acceptance of diversity, many so called minorities seem to think things are even worse.
It makes me wonder if there is some sort of cultural misunderstanding in play here, whereby "people of color" (I despise that term) have finally achieved pure acceptance to the degree that people feel completely comfortable with them enough to not walk on eggshells in their speech, cultural harmony has finally been completely achieved, but then the informality of speech between close friends is mistakenly taken as an insult, the reaction is holy shit what a bitch, and we're back to where we started.
Somewhat naive, of course. Completely wrong - I doubt it.
Re: Harassment at Apple: A personal perspective
#440> I had never before encountered this kind of visceral hatred This comment rang some bells for me. Have a friend from the Netherlands who was in undergrad with me, and one day in confidence he told me one of the things he didn't understand most in America is how someone can harbor, and actively maintain, such a passionate hatred for someone they aren't intimately involved with. While this hatred is most definitely pr…
> I had never before encountered this kind of visceral hatred You should try being a white man on the internet.