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Scientists engineer mice genomes to lengthen their lifespans by 30 percent

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Re: Scientists engineer mice genomes to lengthen their lifespans by 30 percent

#31
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Careful what you wish for. Aging and death are woven deeply into the fabric of society, indeed, into the fabric of life itself. Old growth needs to be periodically swept away to make room for new growth. The only logically possible outcome of immortality is that sooner or later the entire biomass of the planet is consumed by immortals, at which point all growth must stop. Imagine being the last person born into such…

Immortals will still die occasionally due to accidents and other non-age related causes. Unless risk is totally eliminated from the world, there will always be a positive replacement fertility rate.

Actually, I think the greatest risk in a society of immortals would be murder. Everyone would constantly be eyeing each other as a potential resource to allow themselves to reproduce.

Re: Scientists engineer mice genomes to lengthen their lifespans by 30 percent

#32
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Careful what you wish for. Aging and death are woven deeply into the fabric of society, indeed, into the fabric of life itself. Old growth needs to be periodically swept away to make room for new growth. The only logically possible outcome of immortality is that sooner or later the entire biomass of the planet is consumed by immortals, at which point all growth must stop. Imagine being the last person born into such…

Or, we could limit reproduction for those that choose not to age, so that you can only reproduce when you're next in line with and someone dies, keeping a consistent population.

> you can only reproduce when you're next in line with and someone dies

A system similar to that has historically been employed in lines of royal succession, where the number of thrones available places a hard limit on how many people can be kings. It has generally not ended well.

Re: Scientists engineer mice genomes to lengthen their lifespans by 30 percent

#33
post #15
post #5

Lets hope so!

Careful what you wish for. Aging and death are woven deeply into the fabric of society, indeed, into the fabric of life itself. Old growth needs to be periodically swept away to make room for new growth. The only logically possible outcome of immortality is that sooner or later the entire biomass of the planet is consumed by immortals, at which point all growth must stop. Imagine being the last person born into such…

The world is not the only planet in the Universe.

This is not immortality, this is eternal youth, until you die for some reason (war, an accident, suicide, whatever) .

Thermal engines were a radical change in society, it let us do things that were impossible before, like flying. There will be new changes in the world, like nuclear fusion, DNA editing(with actual understanding of it not like we do today), symbiosis between man and machine with high bandwidth communication...

With nuclear fusion you could irrigate the Sahara dessert, you could irrigate Australia. Take Google Earth and look how big those places are. Those places are bigger than Europe and the USA.

With nuclear fusion you could LED grow plants without pesticides and almost without using water(you recycle it).

You can grow food or live in space, mine asteroids and planets like Saturn( do you know how big is Saturn?).

Re: Scientists engineer mice genomes to lengthen their lifespans by 30 percent

#34
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but poor people can't pay. That's why they can't solve anything. Google can spend a billion dollars on this. Multiple billions can be easily spent on this. And it's a great time for that. So much excessive capital. So many millionaires and billionaires. All going to die. What can scientists do to help them?

We're looking for extended life for some people, without being able to guarantee a regular life for all. What a world.

I don't think "regular" is the adjective you are looking for. By definition there will always be lives that are not regular, both positively and negatively.

Re: Scientists engineer mice genomes to lengthen their lifespans by 30 percent

#35
post #15
post #5

Lets hope so!

Careful what you wish for. Aging and death are woven deeply into the fabric of society, indeed, into the fabric of life itself. Old growth needs to be periodically swept away to make room for new growth. The only logically possible outcome of immortality is that sooner or later the entire biomass of the planet is consumed by immortals, at which point all growth must stop. Imagine being the last person born into such…

Immortality will force people to reconsider the consumption of non renewable resources

Re: Scientists engineer mice genomes to lengthen their lifespans by 30 percent

#37
Paper:

http://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(16)31664-6

Caveats:

1) Doing anything to the aging of cells in culture has next to nothing to do with what goes on inside aging tissues, or where it does that is heavily dependent on the details. The article doesn't tell you enough to decide, so you should look at the paper.

2) Doing anything that attenuates the effects of an accelerated aging phenotype, actually usually a DNA repair disorder, almost always has nothing to do with aging as it happens in normal individuals. You can hit mice with hammers, and then evaluate the effects of a hammer-blocking cage, but that doesn't tell you anything about aging - and for exactly the same reasons. This is generally true except when it is isn't, and that depends on the fine details. Again, go look at the paper.

3) The interesting experiment is the one in which pluripotency-inducing factors are upregulated in a normal mouse, but temporarily. This is the thing that people have looked at in the past and said, well, turning on widespread transformation of somatic cells into pluripotent stem cells sounds like a really bad idea. Cancer seems the likely outcome, and that has in fact been demonstrated in a couple of studies in mice, but there is also the point that your central nervous system rather relies upon maintaining the fine structure it has established in many cases, such as data stored in the brain. Running in and randomly reprogramming any CNS cells that take up the vector or the pluripotency signals seems like a bad idea on the face of it.

So on the whole it is fascinating that a good outcome was produced in the normal mice, analogous to the sort of thing that has been produced via stem cell transplants and telomerase gene therapies. But I'd still want to see what happens to the mice over the long term after that, and would expect cancer.

Re: Scientists engineer mice genomes to lengthen their lifespans by 30 percent

#38
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Any other thing we have invented has generally reduced war by increasing resources available to all, at least since industrialization. There are a few exception, but they were generally intended to be weapons, it seems hard to imagine an aging based weapon.

Weren't the world's bloodiest wars conducted after the advent of industrialization? The 20th appears to be the bloodiest century. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_by_death_toll

It appears that way, but remember that the 20th century is also the most populous century. As a fraction of the total population killed, the 20th century is (probably) the most peaceful.

Re: Scientists engineer mice genomes to lengthen their lifespans by 30 percent

#39
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but poor people can't pay. That's why they can't solve anything. Google can spend a billion dollars on this. Multiple billions can be easily spent on this. And it's a great time for that. So much excessive capital. So many millionaires and billionaires. All going to die. What can scientists do to help them?

We're looking for extended life for some people, without being able to guarantee a regular life for all. What a world.

Old people are expensive. If the people on Medicare were as healthy as the average 50-year-old, it would basically solve Medicare's long-term funding problem. If it cost, say, $100K every 10 years, it'd be worthwhile to give it to everyone for free.

Edit: checked numbers. There are about 40 million Americans 65 or older, and Medicare spends about $600 billion/year, for average annual spending of $15K each.

Re: Scientists engineer mice genomes to lengthen their lifespans by 30 percent

#40
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Any other thing we have invented has generally reduced war by increasing resources available to all, at least since industrialization. There are a few exception, but they were generally intended to be weapons, it seems hard to imagine an aging based weapon.

Weren't the world's bloodiest wars conducted after the advent of industrialization? The 20th appears to be the bloodiest century. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_by_death_toll

Might be just that there were so many more people, thanks to industrialization.
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