Tech workers pledge to never build a database of Muslims • Hacker News Board

Re: Tech workers pledge to never build a database of Muslims

#221

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Dec 15, 2016, 10:41 PM UTC

protomyth wrote: post #41

bwreilly wrote: post #30

For everyone dismissing this as "too late" and "this data already exists" should consider that this appears to be addressed in the pledge. > to scale back existing datasets with unnecessary racial, ethnic, and national origin data. > Responsibly destroy high-risk data sets and backups

Good luck getting Facebook or the US Census to do that. This is a useless gesture that means very little. I guess some people get to feel better about themselves. The first step would be some reforms in consumer protection laws dealing with privacy and information sharing. Just watch how much certain SV firms spend to opposed those changes.

[deleted]

Re: Tech workers pledge to never build a database of Muslims

#222

Post by idlewords » Thu, Dec 15, 2016, 10:43 PM UTC

1ris wrote: post #8

It's a ridiculous and naive view of the world. Of course it already exists. For example on facebook. For example in the mosques. Everybody was warned, everybody could have seen this coming. But most people didn't give a fuck. Welcome is post privacy. I didn't need have to be that way. We can still turn this into post-post-privacy. But only if we face what we have already done.

This comment distills into "I told you so".

Facebook has all this data. We're trying to do something about it. What are you doing?

Re: Tech workers pledge to never build a database of Muslims

#223

Post by idlewords » Thu, Dec 15, 2016, 10:45 PM UTC

ori_b wrote: post #165

How many are willing to get arrested over this? How many CEOs are willing to get their company shut down over this? I suspect that this is largely posturing, and when push comes to shove people will comply.

1200 people are willing to quit over this. Let's start there.

Re: Tech workers pledge to never build a database of Muslims

#224

Post by lorenzhs » Thu, Dec 15, 2016, 10:54 PM UTC

eplanit wrote: post #74

So, http://neveragain.tech/ will become a database of tech workers who pledged to never build a database of Muslims.

It's a pledge. People put their name on that list by choice. They want it to be on there, and they want it to be publicly visible. The point you are trying to make is not very well thought out.

Re: Tech workers pledge to never build a database of Muslims

#225

Post by kevinburke » Thu, Dec 15, 2016, 10:56 PM UTC

juicerp wrote: post #76

What a joke. As if Google, FB, and Palatir don't have us all in a NSA or CIA database. I'm sure the government has no data on any of us and all of Eric Schmidt's trips to Obama's white house were just for tea.

> As if Google, FB, and Palantir don't have us all in a NSA or CIA database.

They don't.

Re: Tech workers pledge to never build a database of Muslims

#226

Post by exabrial » Thu, Dec 15, 2016, 10:57 PM UTC

tjohns wrote: post #183

exabrial wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's plenty wrong with asking people to register their serial numbers, especially when you combine these two statements: > asking owners to register their serial numbers > deadly weapon, bearing a serial number that might be especially useful if found at a crime scene

I'm legitimately curious here... what's the actual problem? I don't see any issue combining those two statements. The second amendment gives you a right to own a firearm. Nowhere does it say you should be allowed to use it to commit criminal acts with impunity. I view it like the requirement to have a license plate visible on my car, which seems reasonable given the risks involved in driving.

Because who committed a crime and who owns the firearm are often very different people in reality.

Re: Tech workers pledge to never build a database of Muslims

#227

Post by idlewords » Thu, Dec 15, 2016, 11:00 PM UTC

ChuckMcM wrote: post #119

That is an interesting headline, when I read it I immediately thought the coda would be, "... but advertising networks offer to share theirs." There is absolutely technology already out there that, without your voluntary participation, puts you into arbitrarily precise boxes. One need only look at the targeting options on a Facebook ad to realize just how deep that data goes. Adtech companies have invested billions i…

That's not really true. Look at the ads that are targeted at you, and you'll see that adtech data is really quite inaccurate.

Ad companies collect the data so they can make impressive promises to investors and clients, or just tick a box in a spreadsheet somewhere. Anyone in the industry will tell you that they are bad at using it, and bad at vetting it. Ad company data is nothing like what you could get from Google or Facebook.

Re: Tech workers pledge to never build a database of Muslims

#228

Post by exabrial » Thu, Dec 15, 2016, 11:03 PM UTC

tjohns wrote: post #183

exabrial wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's plenty wrong with asking people to register their serial numbers, especially when you combine these two statements: > asking owners to register their serial numbers > deadly weapon, bearing a serial number that might be especially useful if found at a crime scene

I'm legitimately curious here... what's the actual problem? I don't see any issue combining those two statements. The second amendment gives you a right to own a firearm. Nowhere does it say you should be allowed to use it to commit criminal acts with impunity. I view it like the requirement to have a license plate visible on my car, which seems reasonable given the risks involved in driving.

And you only need to have a plate visible on a vehicle if you plan on using it on public roads.

Re: Tech workers pledge to never build a database of Muslims

#229

Post by idlewords » Thu, Dec 15, 2016, 11:07 PM UTC

jerf wrote: post #109

kevinburke wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over 1000 people, some of them very prominent, have pledged to quit their jobs if they are asked to do unethical things. How is that "merely a gesture"?

Have they destroyed any of this data yet? As much fun as it may be to pretend this is a Trump problem, it's a Silicon Valley problem. It's Silicon Valley waking up and realizing that it's all fun and games until someone you don't like gets the data that they have already painstakingly collected, polished, and devoted billions of dollars to processing and extracting features of interest. The existence of people you do…

You're complaining that "we need actions" in response to tech employees actually taking action. That's weird.

I realize you want to see grander, significant results, but what do you think that looks like at the outset? People starting to do something in an industry that has been historically very wary of being "political".

Re: Tech workers pledge to never build a database of Muslims

#230

Post by idlewords » Thu, Dec 15, 2016, 11:10 PM UTC

wjossey wrote: post #2

It's a lovely gesture, and an important sign of solidarity; however, it'a merely that, just a gesture. I hope that SV and the tech industry leverages its wealth and technical legal capabilities to fight these sorts of actions in court, unlike their responses to privacy intrusions by the federal government, British intelligence, and other foreign groups.

A public commitment is not a gesture, but an act. It may be small for your tastes, but it's something.

I certainly hope people fight aggressively in court. But waiting for that encourages a passive, helpless attitude at a time when we can be doing a lot. And it places too much faith in the legal system and rule of law.

Right now the most effective way to make political change happen in our industry is by applying collective pressure from within. Tech employees are expensive and difficult to replace.