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Tech workers pledge to never build a database of Muslims

latimes.com

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Re: Tech workers pledge to never build a database of Muslims

#161

Post by edblarney »

zouhair wrote: post #100
edblarney wrote: post #48

What about a database of people from countries with high propensity for radicalization, for example Tunisia, or Somalia? Paradox: Tunisia is perhaps the most progressive of all the M/E Muslim countries, and yet they are the #1 M/E country in terms of Jihadis. They are overwhelmingly the greatest per/capita Jihadi producers in the world. By far. Tunisia is very small. Networks are very small. 95% chance that a young m…

Tunisia is not in the Middle-East.

It's de-facto a M/E country. The North African countries are Arabic, Muslim, and are geopolitically part of the Arabic sphere of influence which is de-facto the same thing as middle east.

'North Africa' I find to be not descriptive.

The best term would be 'Maghreb' - but nobody knows what that means.

M/E is an appropriate geopolitical designation.

Re: Tech workers pledge to never build a database of Muslims

#162

Post by exabrial »

tjohns wrote: post #120
exabrial wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Both are guaranteed in the Constitution. Picking parts and playing favorites is what has lead us to the current state of affairs.

One is a potentially deadly weapon, bearing a serial number that might be especially useful if found at a crime scene. The other is a largely inconsequential part of your personal identity, which has routinely been used as justification for persecution throughout human history. (Personally: I support responsible gun ownership, but I don't think there's anything wrong with asking owners to register their serial number…

There's plenty wrong with asking people to register their serial numbers, especially when you combine these two statements:

> asking owners to register their serial numbers > deadly weapon, bearing a serial number that might be especially useful if found at a crime scene

Re: Tech workers pledge to never build a database of Muslims

#163

Post by AcerbicZero »

dmritard96 wrote: post #49
exabrial wrote: post #21

Unfortunately, with firearms registration and no-fly lists, Muslim registries are part of the slope we've set precedent for. A citizen should _never_ have to register with the government to exercise a freedom explicitly granted in the constitution.

equating the purchase of a shotgun to having an ethnic or religious identity is a sad statement.

An interesting, but somewhat depressing argument can be made that subscribing to a specific religion, along with one or two other "flags" is actually far more dangerous than legally purchasing a firearm.

Most reports put between 80%-94% of crimes involving a gun as being committed with an illegally obtained weapon. Which means of the 300k firearm related crimes in 2013 perhaps less than 20k were due to legal gun ownership.

I'm not bringing all this up because I actually believe Muslims are more dangerous than guns, or that Trump was right, or anything along those lines. I'm just trying to highlight how your bias might be more unfounded than you'd imagine.

Re: Tech workers pledge to never build a database of Muslims

#164

Post by entee »

I signed, I'm a fan. If in spite of all this, it or something like it does get created, I think a complimentary strategy would be to overwhelm the database and make it useless. For example, if there was a public registry, everyone should register, making swamping the intended signal with noise. Make it impossible to use the thing.

I hope we never get to that stage.

Re: Tech workers pledge to never build a database of Muslims

#166

Post by gdelfino01 »

soufron wrote: post #133

That's exactly the reason why databases of people including their religious opinions are forbidden under EU Law. And it has been that way in France and in Germany since 1978.

I lived in Germany. They asked my religion and made me pay religion tax (Kirchensteuer). So they already have such a database.

Re: Tech workers pledge to never build a database of Muslims

#167

Post by CamperBob2 »

Mz wrote: post #144
Raed667 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Tunisian I would like to add a comment: 1- Yes, there is a number of Tunisians that went to Syria. As you have said per/capita it is a large number. There are around 10 Million Tunisians and from 3000 to 8000 fighting in Syria (depending on the source). 2- This is due to several factors: Post-revolution politics, poverty, mistrust in the state institutions and the police, and -most importantly- a previous govern…

Sadly, HN seems to be not nearly as interested in hearing about things actually going on outside the US. I posted this earlier this morning and it has not a single upvote (at this time): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13186741 I do what I can to post international news and I try hard to mot make it just about negative things going on out in the larger world. Sometimes, those stories do get some small attention,…

Sometimes, those stories do get some small attention, but there is a serious diversity issue on many discussion boards in terms of what kinds of topics get attention, if that makes sense.

Well, it is called "Hacker News," after all. Perhaps this just isn't the right venue for discussion of that particular story. If so, that's OK. There are plenty of others.

Re: Tech workers pledge to never build a database of Muslims

#168

Post by harigov »

_Codemonkeyism wrote: post #51

Doctors adhere to the Hippocratic Oath. Nevertheless doctors worked in concentration camps, were experimenting on humans, work as executioners currently in the US, work and worked in torture chambers, sell their patients to big pharma for Rolex watches and on and on and on. This pledge may be a statement but is practically worth nothing.

Agreed, but we need to start somewhere. Some of those pledges that doctors take ended up being part of a law so there is at least some hope. Also, this sort of helps people on the fence some clarity about whether what they are doing is immoral. Even if it affects 1% of them, that's still something.

Re: Tech workers pledge to never build a database of Muslims

#169

Post by _Codemonkeyism »

kevinburke wrote: post #115
_Codemonkeyism wrote: post #51

Doctors adhere to the Hippocratic Oath. Nevertheless doctors worked in concentration camps, were experimenting on humans, work as executioners currently in the US, work and worked in torture chambers, sell their patients to big pharma for Rolex watches and on and on and on. This pledge may be a statement but is practically worth nothing.

People take cues and behave based on the norms and behavior of those around them. If I know and like person X, and they exhibit unethical behavior Y, I may conclude that Y can't be that bad because I know X and they are not bad. On the flip side if leaders in my industry or community are declaring "it's unacceptable to participate in this behavior and I will resign rather than be complicit in it" it's more likely tha…

The problem is that you only need say 10 people or less out of one million to make it happen.

I respect people giving that pledge, would give it myself, but the practical impact is 0.

Each day I walk by a large Bayer building who bought Monsanto who do ethical questionable things. Still each day hundreds of people enter that building. There is never a shortage of people who will do whatever they are questioned to do if only they can feed their family. There will always be someone who builds that Muslim database. There is always someone who can rationalize their doings.

Re: Tech workers pledge to never build a database of Muslims

#170

Post by woodruffw »

exabrial wrote: post #149
woofyman wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flying isn't a constitutionally protected right. Voting is though. Should you be able to vote without registering?

Voter registration is an interesting scenario too, but there's more than what meets the surface: There are multiple rights to protect. We all have the right to vote. We also have the right that your vote is of equal weight to everyone else's vote. We must also be able to ensure that votes are anonymous, to protect people from being persecuted. Finally, we also have the right to a secure election that only allows citi…

> as long as it does not intimidate, discriminate, inconvenience, or harass citizens

Historically, this is exactly what voter registration has been used for. You put it somewhere perpetually underfunded (especially in urban areas) like the DMV, and watch the results come in.

I don't disagree with the principle, but the current state of affairs makes it impossible to trust that voter registration laws are passed in good faith.

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