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Tech workers pledge to never build a database of Muslims

latimes.com

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Re: Tech workers pledge to never build a database of Muslims

#121

Post by imdsm »

kevinburke wrote: post #77
wjossey wrote: post #2

It's a lovely gesture, and an important sign of solidarity; however, it'a merely that, just a gesture. I hope that SV and the tech industry leverages its wealth and technical legal capabilities to fight these sorts of actions in court, unlike their responses to privacy intrusions by the federal government, British intelligence, and other foreign groups.

Over 1000 people, some of them very prominent, have pledged to quit their jobs if they are asked to do unethical things. How is that "merely a gesture"?

Perhaps because no matter how prominent you or the company you work for is, there are 1000s of other IT workers who are less scrupulous, less conscious, and more motivated by money than you are. And they would do it.

That being said, who is to say that it would be those people who were asked to do it? Most unlikely. It'd be the grey people, those you don't even know about. Those already doing it.

And finally, it's already done, isn't it? Facebook, Google, et al. I've worked for small companies before that are able to identify demographics of users right down to their likes, dislikes, and ages, even without submitting that information.

You think there isn't already swathes of Island-centric data out there?

Re: Tech workers pledge to never build a database of Muslims

#122

Post by zodPod »

kevinburke wrote: post #77
wjossey wrote: post #2

It's a lovely gesture, and an important sign of solidarity; however, it'a merely that, just a gesture. I hope that SV and the tech industry leverages its wealth and technical legal capabilities to fight these sorts of actions in court, unlike their responses to privacy intrusions by the federal government, British intelligence, and other foreign groups.

Over 1000 people, some of them very prominent, have pledged to quit their jobs if they are asked to do unethical things. How is that "merely a gesture"?

Because there are millions of people in the industry.. Without factoring in any exact data, I'd say it's no less than 20% of those millions voted for Trump and of those I'd be willing to bet a portion would support this initiative. It's "merely a gesture" because it doesn't mean shit and it won't prevent anything.

I do agree with the guy above that said that it'll start a conversation but I wouldn't be surprised if that didn't change anything anyway.

Re: Tech workers pledge to never build a database of Muslims

#123

Post by imdsm »

kevinburke wrote: post #77
wjossey wrote: post #2

It's a lovely gesture, and an important sign of solidarity; however, it'a merely that, just a gesture. I hope that SV and the tech industry leverages its wealth and technical legal capabilities to fight these sorts of actions in court, unlike their responses to privacy intrusions by the federal government, British intelligence, and other foreign groups.

Over 1000 people, some of them very prominent, have pledged to quit their jobs if they are asked to do unethical things. How is that "merely a gesture"?

Perhaps because no matter how prominent you or the company you work for is, there are 1000s of other IT workers who are less scrupulous, less conscious, and more motivated by money than you are. And they would do it.

That being said, who is to say that it would be those people who were asked to do it? Most unlikely. It'd be the grey people, those you don't even know about. Those already doing it.

And finally, it's already done, isn't it? Facebook, Google, et al. I've worked for small companies before that are able to identify demographics of users right down to their likes, dislikes, and ages, even without submitting that information.

You think there isn't already swathes of Island-centric data out there?

Re: Tech workers pledge to never build a database of Muslims

#124

Post by kevinburke »

Raed667 wrote: post #116
kevinburke wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a big difference between advertising to users interested in Islam and shipping that dataset (or clicks, or people who use certain keywords in messages) to the government.

Tell that to a FISA court.

FISA courts asking for the same data are also bad. The data asked for by a FISA court must be gathered and shipped by employees and lawyers who have agency. Those employees and lawyers can choose to fight, or not. This is a public pledge that says "we will choose to fight."

Leaking FISA requests to the press, choosing to face jail time, or trying a public battle over a FISA request are other options available to people at these companies, instead of just rolling over.

I don't understand your argument.

Re: Tech workers pledge to never build a database of Muslims

#125

Post by haldean »

_Codemonkeyism wrote: post #51

Doctors adhere to the Hippocratic Oath. Nevertheless doctors worked in concentration camps, were experimenting on humans, work as executioners currently in the US, work and worked in torture chambers, sell their patients to big pharma for Rolex watches and on and on and on. This pledge may be a statement but is practically worth nothing.

> work as executioners currently in the US

[citation needed]

Re: Tech workers pledge to never build a database of Muslims

#127

Post by golergka »

Raed667 wrote: post #35

I just went on Facebook and created an Ad [0] that targets only people "interested in Islam" and living the US, it took 30 seconds. [0] http://i.imgur.com/NOrGA2N.png --- Edit: Direct link

If you limit it to US, I think you'll get more Trump voters than muslims.

Re: Tech workers pledge to never build a database of Muslims

#128

Post by sctb »

jsf666 wrote: post #20

Can someone explain to me why a religion made by a pedophile-barbarian is somehow tolerated and even defended against "islamophobia" (is e.g. a gay guy phobic for being scared of muslims that given power would throw him from a building or persecute him in some other way at least)? Their whole ideology (as it basically governs every aspect of life) is crude, vile, barbaric and dangerous. The animosity towards them is…

This account has been posting primarily for political and ideological purposes, and Hacker News is not the site for that. we ban accounts that continue like this, so please stop.

Re: Tech workers pledge to never build a database of Muslims

#129

Post by zodPod »

olalonde wrote: post #81
milge wrote: post #3

Sadly, there will always be tech workers willing to do this for the right price. As I get older, I'm starting to wonder if not following my "tech morals" would've brought more success.

I'm playing the devil's advocate here but there are also a lot of tech workers who do not regard building such a database as unethical. A common fallacy on HN is to assume people who hold differing views necessarily do so egoistically, which is sometimes true but not always.

Yeah it's entirely possible that there are a small percentage of tech workers who would fully support this type of move. I too have noticed HN users seem to just assume everyone shares their views.

Re: Tech workers pledge to never build a database of Muslims

#130

Post by edblarney »

Raed667 wrote: post #110
edblarney wrote: post #48

What about a database of people from countries with high propensity for radicalization, for example Tunisia, or Somalia? Paradox: Tunisia is perhaps the most progressive of all the M/E Muslim countries, and yet they are the #1 M/E country in terms of Jihadis. They are overwhelmingly the greatest per/capita Jihadi producers in the world. By far. Tunisia is very small. Networks are very small. 95% chance that a young m…

As a Tunisian I would like to add a comment: 1- Yes, there is a number of Tunisians that went to Syria. As you have said per/capita it is a large number. There are around 10 Million Tunisians and from 3000 to 8000 fighting in Syria (depending on the source). 2- This is due to several factors: Post-revolution politics, poverty, mistrust in the state institutions and the police, and -most importantly- a previous govern…

Thanks for your comment.

And to be clear - I'm not 'blaming' anyone, I spent some time in Tunisia a couple of years ago. I'm just indicating that 'cultures' and 'centers of activity' and 'relationships' are important.

So 'I hear you' on that.

Still though - Tunisians tend to be great people, much more open minded and educated than, for example Algerians or Moroccans ... and the Tunisian government is not nearly as bad as others ... so it's still a paradox :)

Though it could actually be literacy, access to information, and basic financing which enables them to head out to war ... ironically. Certainly, Al Queda members were actually quite well educated, way more so than the average street Arab.

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