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Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?

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Re: Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?

#431

Post by paavokoya »

josh_carterPDX wrote: post #143

As someone who grew up in the Bay Area, but moved to Portland about three years ago, I can tell you there is a stark difference in ecosystems. However, if you are a young up-and-coming programmer coming out of school, it makes complete sense to move to the Bay Area. If you're an Actor you move to L.A. to get your big break. If you're a programmer, you go to the Bay Area to work for a big firm that will help build you…

As someone who grew up in Portland and still lives here. Please stop telling people about Portland. The traffic is already bad enough and I personally enjoy dreaming of owning a house one day that isn't in the sticks. Portland housing is sky-rocketing because of techies leaving the bay for cheaper housing.

Re: Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?

#432

Post by kirubakaran »

emodendroket wrote: post #390
kirubakaran wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly! "Customers pay us more than our competition. They clearly love us and we're doing something right" is a nuanced point hard to make in an ad, but it needs to be made somehow. That's probably why Statefarm et al focus on their customer service in their ads, but those ads don't sound so catchy.

According to Consumer Reports the last I checked, State Farm is near the bottom of the pack in customer satisfaction among claimants.

Oh interesting. I guess that's the benefit of not competing on price. People assume you're probably good at something if you aren't the cheapest.

Re: Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?

#433

Post by ohwello »

ryandrake wrote: post #401
nostrademons wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's over 2 years. $20K or so after tax per year. A bit over $30K pre-tax. Not sure what typical bonuses are these days, but I don't think that's out of line for a big tech company. Certainly stock grants can be much more than that, but it usually takes more than 18 months for them to amount to anything.

Thanks for sharing numbers. Wow, that's an amazing bonus, and you should feel fortunate! This is coming from someone who does work for a big tech company. I've never seen anything remotely close to that.

These are completely normal numbers for the Bay Area. I got substantially higher offers when switching jobs recently, so these numbers from 2010 are not surprising. I am not a rockstar or anything. I just applied to a lot of companies to get multiple offers, and negotiated aggressively. Lots of people are being paid less than this because they don't know they should be asking for more.

Check paysa.com for user-reported total compensation in recent offers. If you don't believe them, check http://h1bdata.info for lawyer-reported salaries of h1b employees (base salary only and probably biased downward by h1b abuse).

The h1b data is mind blowing in the huge disparities within the same company. Let me tell you: the people getting paid 50% more with the same title are not 50% better. I increased offers by 50% by telling the recruiters that's what I would need to accept an offer.

Re: Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?

#434

Post by Rapzid »

findjashua wrote: post #381
twblalock wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, this is absolutely true. Your car, clothing, computers and gadgets, and most of your groceries will be a lower percentage of your discretionary income in the Bay Area than in most other places. Your housing and gasoline will cost more, and maybe your car insurance. However, the caveat is that housing is so expensive here that it's difficult to save up for a down payment on any kind of housing on a single enginee…

If you're a HENRY (High Earner, Not Rich Yet), and have a good credit score (>740), you might qualify for a mortgage with 10% down payment without PMI/second mortgage. With a frugal lifestyle, 10% should be doable in a couple years, especially if you're okay with living in the East Bay (so the house price is somewhat reasonable).

I'm certainly not agreeing with the value prop of the Bay Area, but PMI is actually not such a bad deal if you have prospects. It's not very much extra a month, and now you can get it removed after you have 20% equity in your home by request.

Re: Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?

#435

Post by ohwello »

st3v3r wrote: post #294
twblalock wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have to live in San Francisco. There are plenty of nearby cities with cheaper rent.

But then you'll have to likely sacrifice several hours of your day just to commuting.

I will let you in on a secret: there is a thing called BART, it can get you to a location with a fraction of the rent in 30 minutes.

Re: Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?

#436

Post by ohwello »

sulam wrote: post #160
ammon wrote: post #2

When people compare salaries / the cost of living in different cities, they often fail to account for the fact that many people don't spend their entire salary in the local economy. If you are trying to save money (or pay for college, donate to a cause, or buy a Ferrari) this costs the same no matter where you live. You should only apply the cost of living adjustment to housing (and maybe food). When you do this, liv…

Which leads to a funny observation -- I have never seen so many expensive German automobiles in cheap apartment complexes in my life. Driving elsewhere makes you wonder where all the fancy cars went.

And how many of those fancy car owners complain that they can't afford the down payment for a condo?

Re: Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?

#437

Post by ryanSrich »

bcheung wrote: post #141
tom_b wrote: post #66

Interesting that Bay Area hackers make more than local hackers when they relocate outside the Bay Area. FTA: A 2015 report by Hired found that when engineers from the Bay Area relocate to other areas, they out-earn engineers on the local market. Experience in the Bay Area seems to advance careers. Engineers moving from San Francisco to Seattle make an average of $9,000 more than others who get offers in Seattle. This…

A lot of employers look at previous salary to determine a base point for a new job. Coming from somewhere with a high salary makes it much easier to "justify" asking for more.

How would they know your previous salary?

Re: Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?

#438

Post by nojvek »

automatwon wrote: post #366

I wonder how much weather affects success, both for companies and individuals. I worked as a Data Science engineer in Seattle (startup), and just moved to San Francisco this year (Google). I know this sounds trivial, but I think the more pleasant weather in the Bay Area is beneficial to my career. The lifestyle aspect is just icing on the cake. I can't get up in the morning when it's rainy and cold. Of course, I do s…

Its interesting to see your perspective. I lived in australia for 10 years. I did enjoy it but I had very bad migraines from the sun.

Even when I am in bay area, I dread going out in the bright sunlight. I really like seattle due to its cloudy nature and misty rain.

Rain does the opposite and makes me happy/calm instead.

Re: Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?

#439

Post by infinitone »

automatwon wrote: post #366

I wonder how much weather affects success, both for companies and individuals. I worked as a Data Science engineer in Seattle (startup), and just moved to San Francisco this year (Google). I know this sounds trivial, but I think the more pleasant weather in the Bay Area is beneficial to my career. The lifestyle aspect is just icing on the cake. I can't get up in the morning when it's rainy and cold. Of course, I do s…

Heh.. i guess no one told you about LA or San Diego then.

Re: Does It Make Sense for Programmers to Move to the Bay Area?

#440

Post by kbart »

automatwon wrote: post #366

I wonder how much weather affects success, both for companies and individuals. I worked as a Data Science engineer in Seattle (startup), and just moved to San Francisco this year (Google). I know this sounds trivial, but I think the more pleasant weather in the Bay Area is beneficial to my career. The lifestyle aspect is just icing on the cake. I can't get up in the morning when it's rainy and cold. Of course, I do s…

"I wonder how much weather affects success, both for companies and individuals."

Weather has a very big influence on how one feels, but every person has different preference. I, for example, can't stand heat and sun (I get headaches, sleep problems, find it harder to focus etc). I love colder climates and it would be be very hard to convince me to move to CA, while I'd happily move to Norway or other northern country anytime.

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