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Let your kids lose: Success inhibits preschoolers’ selective trust

sciencedaily.com

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Re: Let your kids lose: Success inhibits preschoolers’ selective trust

#21

Post by krrrh »

Uhhrrr wrote: post #11
semi-extrinsic wrote: post #3

Solution: play something that has essentially zero strategy, where who wins is close to random. Like Ludo or Yahtzee. My daughter often wins at Ludo, but it's not because I let her. She also often loses.

Another one: handicapping. Chess with rook odds, or Go with a few handicap stones.

Recently I got into this relatively new iOS app called Really Bad Chess that is a lot of fun along these lines. My partner was never taught Chess but wanted to learn, and this made it entertaining to get started for both of us.

http://reallybadchess.com

Re: Let your kids lose: Success inhibits preschoolers’ selective trust

#22

Post by smallnamespace »

imagist wrote: post #20

This something I've realized about my own impostor syndrome: the people who are most likely to knock me down a peg when I'm being overconfident are the only ones I trust when they compliment me. If you only ever hear positive things from someone, you can't trust that what they say is true.

> If you only ever hear positive things from someone

That rule seems overly strict perhaps? Like if someone only says positive things, but only occasionally, then there is still a signal there.

Re: Let your kids lose: Success inhibits preschoolers’ selective trust

#23

Post by TeMPOraL »

soft_dev_person wrote: post #13
shakna wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the local proxy you're accessing through. Talk to IT.

Imgur allowed but Science Daily is blocked. I'd like to know the rationale behind that one =)

  rule: .*daily.* deny -- to stop people wasting time...
  rule: imgur.com/.* allow -- kitten pictures allowed
                           -- (we don't want to have a revolution at our hands)

Re: Let your kids lose: Success inhibits preschoolers’ selective trust

#24

Post by jonex »

Ok, I must have read something wrong, but what they are saying is that children put more trust in people giving them useful clues than people giving them not useful clues. Something that seems quite reasonable.

Which makes me confused by this quote: "... it suggests that children may not be as savvy as previous research has suggested."

Obviously a "helpful" clue that doesn't improve your chance of success (they always succeed) isn't really helpful. Isn't it quite savvy to recognise that?

If someone has gotten a better understanding of what they are actually trying to say I'd like to hear it.

There might be an interesting result in it somewhere, as it could be interpreted to imply that only slightly challenging kids in an educational context could lead them to believe that their learning efforts has no use if the challenges are adjusted to never let them fail. But I don't see how the results could be interpreted to mean what the title says.

Re: Let your kids lose: Success inhibits preschoolers’ selective trust

#25

Post by nommm-nommm »

semi-extrinsic wrote: post #3

Solution: play something that has essentially zero strategy, where who wins is close to random. Like Ludo or Yahtzee. My daughter often wins at Ludo, but it's not because I let her. She also often loses.

Yahtzee has some strategy.

Re: Let your kids lose: Success inhibits preschoolers’ selective trust

#26

Post by shiven »

smallnamespace wrote: post #22
imagist wrote: post #20

This something I've realized about my own impostor syndrome: the people who are most likely to knock me down a peg when I'm being overconfident are the only ones I trust when they compliment me. If you only ever hear positive things from someone, you can't trust that what they say is true.

> If you only ever hear positive things from someone That rule seems overly strict perhaps? Like if someone only says positive things, but only occasionally, then there is still a signal there.

This. What happened to if you have nothing positive to say then keep shut?

Positive praise, if rare, with neutral (or no) feedback otherwise, can have a similar effect.

Re: Let your kids lose: Success inhibits preschoolers’ selective trust

#27

Post by imp »

jonex wrote: post #24

Ok, I must have read something wrong, but what they are saying is that children put more trust in people giving them useful clues than people giving them not useful clues. Something that seems quite reasonable. Which makes me confused by this quote: "... it suggests that children may not be as savvy as previous research has suggested." Obviously a "helpful" clue that doesn't improve your chance of success (they alway…

I completely agree. They are taking a limited experiment and extrapolating to parenting in general.

Re: Let your kids lose: Success inhibits preschoolers’ selective trust

#28

Post by zaroth »

jonex wrote: post #24

Ok, I must have read something wrong, but what they are saying is that children put more trust in people giving them useful clues than people giving them not useful clues. Something that seems quite reasonable. Which makes me confused by this quote: "... it suggests that children may not be as savvy as previous research has suggested." Obviously a "helpful" clue that doesn't improve your chance of success (they alway…

One experimenter gave accurate clues; the other gave inaccurate ones.... But for half of the children the game was rigged so that ultimately they would find the hidden objects.

So one adult was always giving bad advice and one was always giving good advice. But in half the games it was rigged so the child always found the toy even if they looked in the wrong places. The advice from the adults was still always bad and good advice for the rigged games.

Afterwards they asked the kids who they thought were more helpful. Even though one adult was giving bad advice always and one adult was giving good advice always the 4-5 years olds only discerned this if they actually lost the game when they didn't follow the good advice, even though the adult giving bad advice was always still giving bad advice.

I think the key is they must have rigged the game to ensure the bad advice adult was always still giving bad advice. If the bad advice turned into good advice in the rigged version then it wouldn't work, just like you said.

Re: Let your kids lose: Success inhibits preschoolers’ selective trust

#29

Post by SeanDav »

I was taught chess at age 6 by a national level player. While I have no doubt he never had to try hard to beat me, he never let me win. I was a far better player as a result.

While I never won, I was never discouraged, because he would always point out where I had made good plays and where I could have done better, in a very interactive manner.

This has got to be one of the best ways to learn.

Re: Let your kids lose: Success inhibits preschoolers’ selective trust

#30

Post by jonex »

zaroth wrote: post #28
jonex wrote: post #24

Ok, I must have read something wrong, but what they are saying is that children put more trust in people giving them useful clues than people giving them not useful clues. Something that seems quite reasonable. Which makes me confused by this quote: "... it suggests that children may not be as savvy as previous research has suggested." Obviously a "helpful" clue that doesn't improve your chance of success (they alway…

One experimenter gave accurate clues; the other gave inaccurate ones.... But for half of the children the game was rigged so that ultimately they would find the hidden objects. So one adult was always giving bad advice and one was always giving good advice. But in half the games it was rigged so the child always found the toy even if they looked in the wrong places. The advice from the adults was still always bad and…

But how can advice for winning a game be either bad or good if you will win whatever you do? That's the part I don't understand.
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