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De-Googleify Internet

degooglisons-internet.org

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Re: De-Googleify Internet

#111

Post by codedokode »

syphilis2 wrote: post #49
Ajedi32 wrote: post #27

> These services track us everywhere, while claiming to give us a better “user experience”. That's kind of the problem though; they usually _do_ offer a better user experience. If we want users to start using open source software rather than walled garden solutions from large companies, we're going to have to start building open source solutions which offer a comparable user experience to proprietary ones from large…

I believe this is true. But I also have found that sometimes the user experience is diminished when not "logged in" to encourage people to create accounts. Pinterest has a box that slowly covers up more of the screen as you scroll drown. Facebook has a login prompt box that stays at the bottom of the screen and occasionally expands as a reminder. Quora prevents internal redirects to new pages. With enough know-how th…

Does it even work? I interpret such behaviour as "you are not welcome here" and close the page.

Re: De-Googleify Internet

#112

Post by Frondo »

mjevans wrote: post #50
mwfunk wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've long felt that RMS/FSF's very specific and nonintuitive usage of "free" was intended to be misleading. If someone says "free" (which has many, many different meanings, all positive) when they really mean "copyleft" (which has one very complicated meaning), they're not trying to clarify anything, rather they're trying to muddy the waters so that people who don't understand copyleft or the FSF's political philosop…

It's less confusing when you focus on the 'freedom of the users'. Maybe that's the part of the message that's been most lost over the years. Focusing so much on free/libre that the group to which it applies (everyone (else), end users) is forgotten. Freedom for the users is the empowerment to treat ideas and expressions of ideas as simply that. A restoration to the laws of nature which make the cost of copying an ide…

People walking around with smartphones just don't think of themselves as "users of software," though that's exactly what they are.

It's unclear wording. It's also not the most immediate and intuitive concept for people outside the industry to wrap their heads around.

Think about driving a car. You're driving a car, you need to know about stuff like having a license and gas and insurance and so on, i.e. the things that a "driver" or "motorist" is generally responsible for.

Obviously, no license needed for having a smartphone, and all you really need is a charger to keep it going, which is part of why there's nothing nudging people to that conceptual leap of being "a user of software".

We could do better, but there's an industry-wide revulsion to finding the right language for communicating with your people, i.e. marketing.

I used to be a big advocate of "free software" as distinct from "open source," but after spending a few years in the marketing side of the industry, I don't give a shit at all about that distinction, because neither does anyone who isn't already drowning in the kool aid.

Like I said, we could do better.

Re: De-Googleify Internet

#113

Post by brightsize »

pfranz wrote: post #82
nvk wrote: post #3

Just talking about search alternative; DuckDuckGo is my default search engine for over 2 years. It's incredibly good, the only caveat is you need to re-learn how to search. The same way you "changed yourself" initially for google.

I've used DDG for awhile and been using it as my default for at least a year. However, my pattern, still, is almost always "ddg.gg foo", skim, "ddg.gg foo !g" I'll high-five other techies who I see using it, but I just can't recommend it for the average person without first warning them you'll give up accuracy and time for privacy. Maybe I haven't relearned how to search?

As much as I want to love DDG my experience is similar to yours. It's my default search engine too but I'm constantly having to !sp my way to good results.

Re: De-Googleify Internet

#114

Post by codedokode »

myowncrapulence wrote: post #90
ssully wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A blood sample? The only fields they ask for that might be too much for someone is a phone number and prior email, and neither is required to make an account. I take my privacy very seriously and understand a lot of the apprehension about Google's tracking, but I think you are being a little ridiculous.

I've never been able to sign-up for a google account without entering a valid phone number. Even typing 555-5555 it will state it needs a valid phone number.

It probably depends on your IP address and how many accounts were registered using it (if your ISP uses NAT then many users share a single address) and maybe other factors like country etc.

Re: De-Googleify Internet

#115

Post by dispose13432 »

anthony_romeo wrote: post #65
stuckagain wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It defies my experience to claim that DDG can have equivalent search quality to Google. For one thing Google search results include my own emails and docs, which DDG doesn't produce. I find that Google's personalization is key to quality, not counter to it. As an example search for "good espresso open now". The DDG results are entirely useless.

Generally yes. I default to DDG, but I when I don't find what I want I often just add the '!g' to the search. The only issue I have with Google search (aside from privacy concerns and the like) is the frequency to which the results don't actually contain any of the search terms I use. This functionality is fine for general use, but when I'm actually looking for something very specific the guesses Google makes often m…

>Generally yes. I default to DDG, but I when I don't find what I want I often just add the '!g' to the search.

What's the advantage of that over just going to google.com?

Re: De-Googleify Internet

#116

Post by jonathankoren »

rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #45
mwfunk wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've long felt that RMS/FSF's very specific and nonintuitive usage of "free" was intended to be misleading. If someone says "free" (which has many, many different meanings, all positive) when they really mean "copyleft" (which has one very complicated meaning), they're not trying to clarify anything, rather they're trying to muddy the waters so that people who don't understand copyleft or the FSF's political philosop…

My usual goto about "free" software and "free" service: "Free speech is not the same as free beer."

"Oh I get it now. So how much is a copy of GNU Toolchain?"

"Oh it's free."

"..."

"It's free as in beer."

Re: De-Googleify Internet

#117

Post by pierre_d528 »

KirinDave wrote: post #99
pierre_d528 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, Alan Kay and a couple of friends built an entire system in 2.8MB in 1998[1]. It is 2016 and "large companies" are still overrated. People who think we cannot do better are ignorant and probably overrated. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUud1gcbS9k

I don't want to think or speculate. I want to see people do better and then we can congratulate people. Not before. Do better and people will recognize it. That's the best part of this industry.

People I know think before they act and sometimes do better.

They also see much more than an "industry" or a "product".

Best thing of all: we may have ≠ POV and still not hurt each other. Freedom!

Re: De-Googleify Internet

#118

Post by anthony_romeo »

dispose13432 wrote: post #115
anthony_romeo wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally yes. I default to DDG, but I when I don't find what I want I often just add the '!g' to the search. The only issue I have with Google search (aside from privacy concerns and the like) is the frequency to which the results don't actually contain any of the search terms I use. This functionality is fine for general use, but when I'm actually looking for something very specific the guesses Google makes often m…

>Generally yes. I default to DDG, but I when I don't find what I want I often just add the '!g' to the search. What's the advantage of that over just going to google.com?

Well, most of the time I don't need to go to Google. But with '!g' the search defaults to encrypted mode (which you can do anyway at encrypted.google.com).

Honestly, I mostly use ddg because the bang syntax is extremely helpful. Like if I want to search hacker news posts, I just add !hn or !hackernews to the search. They also have bang searches for documentation of many languages, like !java

Re: De-Googleify Internet

#120

Post by funkyy »

codedokode wrote: post #111
syphilis2 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe this is true. But I also have found that sometimes the user experience is diminished when not "logged in" to encourage people to create accounts. Pinterest has a box that slowly covers up more of the screen as you scroll drown. Facebook has a login prompt box that stays at the bottom of the screen and occasionally expands as a reminder. Quora prevents internal redirects to new pages. With enough know-how th…

Does it even work? I interpret such behaviour as "you are not welcome here" and close the page.

Sometimes there is important information behind those that you need, so you are forced to look for walkarounds.
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