Microsoft is bringing Windows 10, with desktop app support, to ARM chipsets • Hacker News Board

Re: Microsoft is bringing Windows 10, with desktop app support, to ARM chipsets

#171

Post by imtringued » Fri, Dec 09, 2016, 8:18 AM UTC

eropple wrote: post #150

ralmidani wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You raise a good point, which prompts a genuine question: does having a free OS and BIOS help safeguard against "rogue" peripherals (since the system knows what they're supposed to do)?

The system doesn't, though, not really. I mean, consider something running over Thunderbolt. A device that doesn't even tell you it supports Thunderbolt (and triggers it via USB3 alternate modes) then has direct, unimpeded access to the physical memory space of the computer. PCMCIA cards, PCI cards, FireWire...USB, itself is more intermediated--but that's also why latency is higher. You can disable DMA in the BIOS, b…

>A device that doesn't even tell you it supports Thunderbolt

Thunderbolt devices have to be approved before they can be used.

http://dxg49ziwjgkgt.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/...

Re: Microsoft is bringing Windows 10, with desktop app support, to ARM chipsets

#172

Post by petecox » Fri, Dec 09, 2016, 9:08 AM UTC

mhomde wrote: post #16

I'm more than a little confused about MS "mobile" strategy. Continuum sounds like a good idea, in theory. For enterprise I can kinda see it be attractive to just give your employees mobile phones and hook the office up with continuum docks. But it seems problematic in more than one aspect. For starters it's based on the fact that people are going to want to use a windows mobile as their primary device to start with.…

> For starters it's based on the fact that people are going to want to use a windows mobile as their primary device to start with.

WP10 as the main OS, launch Android in a hypervisor, which ARMv8 supports.

Re: Microsoft is bringing Windows 10, with desktop app support, to ARM chipsets

#173

Post by petecox » Fri, Dec 09, 2016, 9:22 AM UTC

bitmapbrother wrote: post #93

Did they mention battery life? I can only wonder how much battery life will take a hit with emulation especially when you're trying to make the emulated app as performant as possible.

Probably not great but I'd envisage running 'legacy' x86 desktop programs on a phone typically when 'docked' on mains power with external screen(s), a mouse and external keyboard.

Re: Microsoft is bringing Windows 10, with desktop app support, to ARM chipsets

#174

Post by hawski » Fri, Dec 09, 2016, 9:39 AM UTC

Licensingwise where is the difference between x86 software emulation, x86 hardware assisted emulation and new x86 processor? What I get from this is that they will do user mode emulation like qemu-user. Either way they will emulate it in software. If they would add a co-processor that would assist the emulation, would it need a license from Intel? I understand if it would run as a normal x86 core it would require it.

Re: Microsoft is bringing Windows 10, with desktop app support, to ARM chipsets

#175

Post by blauditore » Fri, Dec 09, 2016, 9:45 AM UTC

roryisok wrote: post #119

pedalpete wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"So what is Microsoft's plan, now it seems they're just throwing stuff on the walls and to see what sticks." Yes, and this is exactly what they should be doing. In some ways, it is what Microsoft has often done in the past. Remember Windows Tablet circa 2004? It may have been a complete failure, but it shows Microsoft was looking toward and understood the future. Unfortunately it came at a time when Microsoft was not…

Absolutely agree. "seeing what sticks" is also called innovation. It's what Amazon and Microsoft are excelling at and what Apple has forgotten how to do

I think the problem at MS is indeed not the lack of innovation, but the lack of synchronizing the different efforts and listening to feedback (i.e. checking if it actually sticks).

In years of using and developing for WP, I've been baffled several times by how unsynchronized some of their actions looked from the outside. One thing always enraging WP users was that Android and iOS counterparts of MS apps received new features earlier than their WP counterparts, if at all. While the other platforms are surely important, it looks like even MS doesn't really believe in its own mobile platform.

I just never could get rid of the impression that one layer of management isn't doing it's job propery.

Re: Microsoft is bringing Windows 10, with desktop app support, to ARM chipsets

#176

Post by pjmlp » Fri, Dec 09, 2016, 9:46 AM UTC

roryisok wrote: post #166

pjmlp wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon only pulled theirs from Windows Phone 8.x. It is there for Windows Phone 10.

Sadly my Lumia 925 doesn't do windows 10. It let me try out the dev previews but not the official release

I was pissed off with the 630 not being supported, but then I remembered that my Windows devices have actually got more updates than the Android ones and got a 650 to keep playing with UWP.

Re: Microsoft is bringing Windows 10, with desktop app support, to ARM chipsets

#177

Post by roryisok » Fri, Dec 09, 2016, 9:50 AM UTC

pjmlp wrote: post #157

setq wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whilst bitching heavily about it earlier, I've got to be honest here. If they fix the people, mail and calendar app bugs, which they are doing rapidly, it destroys Apple and Google's offerings. I've only used them with an outlook.com and office 365 account so far but it really has potential. Just please Microsoft, don't screw it all up and feature dump too hard! For reference I went on a six month long hiatus after u…

The developer experience is miles ahead of Android, even when looking at the phone/store split they had on 8.x. The only downside was having accelerated graphics only available as pure COM instead of WinRT components, but even there the situation is improving.

absolutely. neither iOS nor Android allow you to build an app in pure javascript/html, or have an app that will run on both the desktop and mobile without a single code change.

Re: Microsoft is bringing Windows 10, with desktop app support, to ARM chipsets

#178

Post by roryisok » Fri, Dec 09, 2016, 9:57 AM UTC

nailer wrote: post #164

bhauer wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This announcement provides a bit of credibility to the suspicion that Microsoft has been wanting to make a "Surface Phone" device for some time, but was delaying until the right pieces were in place. It is possible they had been working with Intel's Broxton and that chip's cancellation required returning to the drawing board, so to speak. But it seems likely, to my mind, that what we see today—x86 emulation on a Snap…

If it works, how usable would a desktop app run on a phone? I think Microsoft would intend to do this for tablets (which need longer battery life than what Intel provides) rather than a Surface Phone.

A desktop app would probably be tricky to use on a phone screen, but the big idea here is that you can connect the tiny computer in your pocket to a TV or a monitor and have it work just like a laptop, with no OS restrictions.

Re: Microsoft is bringing Windows 10, with desktop app support, to ARM chipsets

#179

Post by roryisok » Fri, Dec 09, 2016, 10:26 AM UTC

pjmlp wrote: post #176

roryisok wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly my Lumia 925 doesn't do windows 10. It let me try out the dev previews but not the official release

I was pissed off with the 630 not being supported, but then I remembered that my Windows devices have actually got more updates than the Android ones and got a 650 to keep playing with UWP.

I have a 640 with a smashed screen for testing. I'm liking it enough lately that I'm tempted to drop the €40 for a new screen.

One thing I've noticed is that the voice recognition is not as good as it was on the WP8 SMS app. I love that I can use it anywhere now, don't understand why it's taken a backward step in accuracy though

Re: Microsoft is bringing Windows 10, with desktop app support, to ARM chipsets

#180

Post by roryisok » Fri, Dec 09, 2016, 11:30 AM UTC

blauditore wrote: post #175

roryisok wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely agree. "seeing what sticks" is also called innovation. It's what Amazon and Microsoft are excelling at and what Apple has forgotten how to do

I think the problem at MS is indeed not the lack of innovation, but the lack of synchronizing the different efforts and listening to feedback (i.e. checking if it actually sticks). In years of using and developing for WP, I've been baffled several times by how unsynchronized some of their actions looked from the outside. One thing always enraging WP users was that Android and iOS counterparts of MS apps received new…

Definitely. The best example: When WP8 first launched, it was only one of two totally different Microsoft phone platforms. The Microsoft Kin was simultaneously developed and launched by a wholly separate team. It cost $1 Billion to develop and lasted for 2 months before the plug was pulled. Mismanagement doesn't get any more blatant than wasting a billion dollars to build something your company is already building on another campus.

Regarding the WP apps though, I do find the WP OneNote to be better than the Android version.