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Microsoft is bringing Windows 10, with desktop app support, to ARM chipsets

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Re: Microsoft is bringing Windows 10, with desktop app support, to ARM chipsets

#121

Post by stcredzero »

noveltyaccount wrote: post #83
mhomde wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno, take the Dell xps 13, depending on your specs you have pretty powerful laptop in a 11" format. Compare that against the HP Lap dock ( https://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/HP-Elit... ). Expensive and it isn't even a full laptop. I think the problem I'm having with continuum is that it's based on us only using the computer in a few fixed places, whereas the good thing about laptops is that they…

> I think the problem I'm having with continuum is that it's based on us only using the computer in a few fixed places I'm still holding out hope for a "Surface phone" with a laptop dock. The dock would really just be a battery, keyboard, trackpad, display, and probably a few USB ports.

I'd add a GTX 1060 GPU.

Re: Microsoft is bringing Windows 10, with desktop app support, to ARM chipsets

#122

Post by setq »

roryisok wrote: post #118
flukus wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Were the background images always there in Windows 10 mail? It honestly looks like an amateur access app from the 90's.

I enthusiastically started using windows mail when I switched to win8, and then discovered that file attachments were severely broken. They disappear from emails over time, and rather than fix the problem, it was suggested that we move a message from one IMAP folder to another to make them reappear. I wonder if they seriously thought anyone would put themselves through that. That said, I am still a windows phone user…

Whilst bitching heavily about it earlier, I've got to be honest here. If they fix the people, mail and calendar app bugs, which they are doing rapidly, it destroys Apple and Google's offerings. I've only used them with an outlook.com and office 365 account so far but it really has potential. Just please Microsoft, don't screw it all up and feature dump too hard!

For reference I went on a six month long hiatus after using Android for about two years and getting shafted by zero updates, via a Nokia dumb phone and now to WP, which was where I was before the android handset. Android on a mid range handset is a disaster worthy of it's own rant in a more appropriate thread. My wife is always complaining about her iPhone 6s random problems like audio disappearing and suddenly getting random impossible to delete stuff appear in her calendar from emails and the inability to easily move music around. There's an opportunity to kill this friction.

As for app culture, screw it. When I had a dumb Nokia I learned that it pays to use a proper computer for anything serious so I run the phone as a music player, a phone and casual email/calendar device and nothing else.

eBay app was awful. The android one is no better - falls over all the time.

Re: Microsoft is bringing Windows 10, with desktop app support, to ARM chipsets

#123

Post by blisse »

derekp7 wrote: post #116
no1youknowz wrote: post #4

As soon as I saw Ubuntu Edge back in 2013, I have been dreaming of the day something like Continuum is a reality and not just for Windows. For Linux and MacOS as well. Hopefully, it's not to far off now.

This is something I've wanted for a few years now (even before the Edge). But the more I think about it, the less sense it makes. To explain, let's examine a couple variations. First, you have your phone which connects to a dock, which lets your keyboard and monitor connect to the phone. Now, replace the dock with a full computer, but uses the phone for storage. If you had these two systems side-by-side, could you te…

The end goal isn't whether state is ubiquitous or not. It is still that you don't need to buy a computer anymore, you can just buy a phone which does everything a computer does. Everything until that point is a compromise because the technology isn't there yet, but Microsoft also can't afford to not be ready the moment the technology is there, so they're iterating on it now to make sure they will be.

Re: Microsoft is bringing Windows 10, with desktop app support, to ARM chipsets

#124

Post by simonh »

pedalpete wrote: post #100
mhomde wrote: post #16

I'm more than a little confused about MS "mobile" strategy. Continuum sounds like a good idea, in theory. For enterprise I can kinda see it be attractive to just give your employees mobile phones and hook the office up with continuum docks. But it seems problematic in more than one aspect. For starters it's based on the fact that people are going to want to use a windows mobile as their primary device to start with.…

"So what is Microsoft's plan, now it seems they're just throwing stuff on the walls and to see what sticks." Yes, and this is exactly what they should be doing. In some ways, it is what Microsoft has often done in the past. Remember Windows Tablet circa 2004? It may have been a complete failure, but it shows Microsoft was looking toward and understood the future. Unfortunately it came at a time when Microsoft was not…

If it's really for 5-10 years from now, they should release it in 5-10 years when it's fully baked. How can any product that needs at least another 5 years of work be anything other than a poorly implemented beta product that isnt fully thought out and doesn't work properly?

Apart from the total disregard that shows for current customers, the big issue with that attitude is that it's fundamentally incompatible with the discipline and focus needed to actualy get the product right even 5-10 years down the line.

Poorly thought out, badly implemented compromised systems do not transform into great products. None of the parts of those half baked tablet computers from Origami and such exist to this day. The whole lot had to be junked when Apple showed everyone how it ought to be done. The fact that they had a half baked solution to sell actively prevented better solutions being developed within Microsoft because they would compete with the existing system. It's a recipe for mediocrity now and failure in the future.

Re: Microsoft is bringing Windows 10, with desktop app support, to ARM chipsets

#125

Post by RandomOpinion »

ak217 wrote: post #113

Ironic that instead of working on establishing a proper mobile software platform, Microsoft is spending enormous resources on escaping the Intel ecosystem just as Intel is finally getting a handle on pushing its x86 line into smartphone power consumption territory.

>Intel is finally getting a handle on pushing its x86 line into smartphone power consumption territory.

Intel cancelled their smartphone x86 chip in April.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/10288/intel-broxton-sofia-smar...

Perhaps they'll re-enter the smartphone market but it's unlikely to be anytime soon.

Re: Microsoft is bringing Windows 10, with desktop app support, to ARM chipsets

#126

Post by justin66 »

simonh wrote: post #124
pedalpete wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"So what is Microsoft's plan, now it seems they're just throwing stuff on the walls and to see what sticks." Yes, and this is exactly what they should be doing. In some ways, it is what Microsoft has often done in the past. Remember Windows Tablet circa 2004? It may have been a complete failure, but it shows Microsoft was looking toward and understood the future. Unfortunately it came at a time when Microsoft was not…

If it's really for 5-10 years from now, they should release it in 5-10 years when it's fully baked. How can any product that needs at least another 5 years of work be anything other than a poorly implemented beta product that isnt fully thought out and doesn't work properly? Apart from the total disregard that shows for current customers, the big issue with that attitude is that it's fundamentally incompatible with t…

> If it's really for 5-10 years from now, they should release it in 5-10 years when it's fully baked.

> Poorly thought out, badly implemented compromised systems do not transform into great products.

Microsoft has never needed their first version of a thing to be fully basked in order for the product to eventually be successful. Ever.

Re: Microsoft is bringing Windows 10, with desktop app support, to ARM chipsets

#127

Post by dpark »

simonh wrote: post #124
pedalpete wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"So what is Microsoft's plan, now it seems they're just throwing stuff on the walls and to see what sticks." Yes, and this is exactly what they should be doing. In some ways, it is what Microsoft has often done in the past. Remember Windows Tablet circa 2004? It may have been a complete failure, but it shows Microsoft was looking toward and understood the future. Unfortunately it came at a time when Microsoft was not…

If it's really for 5-10 years from now, they should release it in 5-10 years when it's fully baked. How can any product that needs at least another 5 years of work be anything other than a poorly implemented beta product that isnt fully thought out and doesn't work properly? Apart from the total disregard that shows for current customers, the big issue with that attitude is that it's fundamentally incompatible with t…

> If it's really for 5-10 years from now, they should release it in 5-10 years when it's fully baked.

You can't go dark and build a product for 5-10 years and then drop it on the market. While you're "baking" for years the market will change around you and you'll find that you built the wrong thing and someone else launched early and took the whole market with iterative improvements.

> Poorly thought out, badly implemented compromised systems do not transform into great products.

Sure they do. There's a reason people talk about minimum viable products and worse is better. You cannot build the perfect product in isolation. You build something good enough, get to the market, and keep making it better.

Disclosure: MSFT employee

Re: Microsoft is bringing Windows 10, with desktop app support, to ARM chipsets

#128

Post by dpark »

cmdrfred wrote: post #120
petra wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The continuum stuff is maybe the long term plan. But i think they could have a decent short term plan: What about an affordable 7"-8" tablet that can offer windows mobile gaming(with an add-on joystick) and media + serve as a computer + serve as a media center ? could be a great fit for a the gamer niche, teens , and frugal consumers. And a 7" platfrom is a great beachhead to encourage app development for 5" phones.

>frugal consumers I feel like nobody is attempting to hit that market anymore in the US. As the income gap widens it seems foolish to ignore the majority of the marketplace.

You can buy a 7" Fire tablet for $50. The market is not lacking options for frugal customers.

Re: Microsoft is bringing Windows 10, with desktop app support, to ARM chipsets

#129

Post by reynoldsbd »

I don't understand all the hate here. Either it will work well or it won't, and the market will decide if it gets to live or die. For a company with resources like Microsoft that has its fingers in so many corners of the market, this seems like a workable, if inelegant, business strategy.

I am much more interested in the technical details of such technology. How are they doing this? Is it pure emulation? JIT transpilation? Does .NET CIL have anything to do with making this "emulation" easy?

Re: Microsoft is bringing Windows 10, with desktop app support, to ARM chipsets

#130

Post by [deleted] »

reynoldsbd wrote: post #129

I don't understand all the hate here. Either it will work well or it won't, and the market will decide if it gets to live or die. For a company with resources like Microsoft that has its fingers in so many corners of the market, this seems like a workable, if inelegant, business strategy. I am much more interested in the technical details of such technology. How are they doing this? Is it pure emulation? JIT transpil…

[deleted]
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