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Microsoft is bringing Windows 10, with desktop app support, to ARM chipsets

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Re: Microsoft is bringing Windows 10, with desktop app support, to ARM chipsets

#131

Post by scholia »

criddell wrote: post #108
scholia wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't: there are different UIs for different screen sizes. Your data is in the cloud (eg a Word Document in OneDrive on on Azure) and you can access it from a full desktop program on a PC or Mac, from an app on iOS or Android, or via a web browser on any device that has one. This is a cross-platform vision that works both online and offline (unlike Google) and that ultimately doesn't care which device you use (u…

But that's not the vision from the article ("Microsoft is about to turn a phone into a real PC") or this thread. Take a phone and plug in a bigger display and keyboard and mouse and suddenly it's a desktop computer. So a single application is going to need to cope with a 4" touchscreen display with no keyboard or mouse as well as a multi-monitor setup without touch, but with a keyboard and mouse.

> So a single application is going to need to cope with a 4" touchscreen display with no keyboard or mouse as well as a multi-monitor setup without touch, but with a keyboard and mouse.

Yes, it reflows. You use the app when it's in phone mode, and you get the full desktop-style UI when in Continuum mode. There are several demos online. See for example, from April 2015 (so it's surprising you haven't seen it before):

Windows 10 Continuum for Phones LIVE DEMO https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sc1efHpPIVo

More recently:

Enhanced Continuum For Phones demo (Build 2016) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tv5Y9vNOSMc

Re: Microsoft is bringing Windows 10, with desktop app support, to ARM chipsets

#132

Post by andy_ppp »

raminonstuff wrote: post #107
raminonstuff wrote: post #99

Wow I just did a quick search here and found zero references to the word "Internet"! Nobody mentions the IoT. Internet of Things is and will be running on ARM CPUs, ARM GPUs, ARM Display, ARM Video, etc. Not having your major OS on ARM means you are behind Android, behind iOS, behind Linux, behind IoT and basically behind the world... Have you seen Windows 10 IoT Core? https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/io…

I am waiting to see the MacBook Pro run on ARM with 10x more battery life :)

Or my preference with 32 cores; some for power efficiency and some for battery life.

Re: Microsoft is bringing Windows 10, with desktop app support, to ARM chipsets

#133

Post by cmdrfred »

dpark wrote: post #128
cmdrfred wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>frugal consumers I feel like nobody is attempting to hit that market anymore in the US. As the income gap widens it seems foolish to ignore the majority of the marketplace.

You can buy a 7" Fire tablet for $50. The market is not lacking options for frugal customers.

It's a start, Amazon is smart to move in that market. I say put Linux on it and add a keyboard and we'd be getting somewhere.

Re: Microsoft is bringing Windows 10, with desktop app support, to ARM chipsets

#134

Post by scholia »

protomyth wrote: post #104
scholia wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clearly a long-term plan because Microsoft wouldn't have been able to do it so quickly. Also, Intel did not leave Microsoft in the lurch: Intel left Intel in the lurch. It made no difference at all to Microsoft, which already had Windows on ARM smartphones and tablets. It didn't even lose any revenue, because Windows is free on small screen devices.

I think it screwed up Microsoft's original Surface Phone strategy if the tech press is to be believed.

You're worrying about ill-informed speculation about a hypothetical product? ;-)

Re: Microsoft is bringing Windows 10, with desktop app support, to ARM chipsets

#135

Post by int_19h »

LeanderK wrote: post #30
mhomde wrote: post #16

I'm more than a little confused about MS "mobile" strategy. Continuum sounds like a good idea, in theory. For enterprise I can kinda see it be attractive to just give your employees mobile phones and hook the office up with continuum docks. But it seems problematic in more than one aspect. For starters it's based on the fact that people are going to want to use a windows mobile as their primary device to start with.…

i have immediately thought of that. Also Microsoft has Office Apps for Smartphones. I downloaded them once, but never used them. For a quick view a browser based solution would be sufficient, i really don't need full editing capabilities on my smartphone. Speaking of tablets is entirely different, but microsoft already has the surface computer/tablet mix.

Why can't there be a smartphone/tablet/desktop mix? With a single device, so that your apps are always running, you're always in the same place, all your data is always there (connectivity or no) etc.

ASUS actually already tried a smartphone/tablet device with PadPhone, but it lacked the productivity angle that full-fledged Win10 would bring to the table. Also, I think the idea of physically docking the phone into the tablet is counter-productive, because it results in a bulky device, and you cannot use the phone.

A simple tablet that is basically just a wireless display with touch makes a lot more sense, and the phone can stay in the pocket. I also wonder how much lighter the tablet could be made if it didn't have to have a powerful chipset, and cooling for it.

Re: Microsoft is bringing Windows 10, with desktop app support, to ARM chipsets

#136

Post by int_19h »

criddell wrote: post #34
nambit wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternatively, make everything a remote keyboard/mouse/display for your home computer. Even another desktop computer.

It doesn't make a lot of sense to me because the software I run on my watch is nothing like the software I run on my desktop. To use the typical car analogy, it feels like designing a motorcycle that you can attach a second set of wheels and a cabin to turn it into a car. Or a second set of wheels and a bed to turn it into pick up truck. Or wings to become an airplane. Or a hull to become a boat.

But the reason why you run different software on your watch is because it cannot be a desktop. What if it could?

All your examples sound ridiculous, because we know that there's no technological way to make it work well. But suppose there was one. Wouldn't you want a car that could turn into a monster truck, minivan, boat or airplane, if all of these actually worked well? Especially if it was all for a fraction of the combined cost of these things today?

Re: Microsoft is bringing Windows 10, with desktop app support, to ARM chipsets

#137

Post by angryteabag »

scholia wrote: post #98
FlyingSnake wrote: post #22

> Microsoft’s dominance in PCs means it’s the only company likely to pull it off at scale. Try they might, but it's not going to work of you don't have another piece of the puzzle i.e. Mobile. Microsoft is so much out of the mobile game, no matter what it's gonna do on PC, it'll not work. The windows phone is dead as a dodo, and they've nothing to show on mobile. It'll take extraordinary efforts to get their continuu…

Microsoft is in mobile: it already has dozens of apps on both iOS and Android. It really doesn't care whose phone you use, it just wants you to use its apps to access your data on Azure. If your data is in OneDrive, you can access it using anything that has a browser, including a Chromebook.

I think they need to focus more on encouraging developers to get into making Apps for their platform.

In my opinion, we don't need another platform to learn - you can see how many people agree with me when you look at how prevalent web > native technologies are right now. PhoneGap, ReactNative, NativeScript.

If Microsoft decided to focus on Edge, not as a token "we still make browsers" gesture, but with a genuine interest to innovate.

They focused on web technologies, providing native support for web within their operating systems. Support in ways other manufacturers haven't.

Imagine if their app store was a place where you could publish a progressive web app (along side their current apps).

How low would the barrier of entry be then?

Re: Microsoft is bringing Windows 10, with desktop app support, to ARM chipsets

#138

Post by cmdrfred »

setq wrote: post #122
roryisok wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I enthusiastically started using windows mail when I switched to win8, and then discovered that file attachments were severely broken. They disappear from emails over time, and rather than fix the problem, it was suggested that we move a message from one IMAP folder to another to make them reappear. I wonder if they seriously thought anyone would put themselves through that. That said, I am still a windows phone user…

Whilst bitching heavily about it earlier, I've got to be honest here. If they fix the people, mail and calendar app bugs, which they are doing rapidly, it destroys Apple and Google's offerings. I've only used them with an outlook.com and office 365 account so far but it really has potential. Just please Microsoft, don't screw it all up and feature dump too hard! For reference I went on a six month long hiatus after u…

I agree with you on the apps. I have 6 apps. Email, text, phone, podcasts, maps and browser.

Re: Microsoft is bringing Windows 10, with desktop app support, to ARM chipsets

#139

Post by int_19h »

criddell wrote: post #108
scholia wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't: there are different UIs for different screen sizes. Your data is in the cloud (eg a Word Document in OneDrive on on Azure) and you can access it from a full desktop program on a PC or Mac, from an app on iOS or Android, or via a web browser on any device that has one. This is a cross-platform vision that works both online and offline (unlike Google) and that ultimately doesn't care which device you use (u…

But that's not the vision from the article ("Microsoft is about to turn a phone into a real PC") or this thread. Take a phone and plug in a bigger display and keyboard and mouse and suddenly it's a desktop computer. So a single application is going to need to cope with a 4" touchscreen display with no keyboard or mouse as well as a multi-monitor setup without touch, but with a keyboard and mouse.

> So a single application is going to need to cope with a 4" touchscreen display with no keyboard or mouse as well as a multi-monitor setup without touch, but with a keyboard and mouse.

Only if it makes sense for that application. It doesn't mean that every desktop app would be usable on the phone. Or vice versa, for that matter; although it is much more rare for a phone app to not be useful on the desktop.

Re: Microsoft is bringing Windows 10, with desktop app support, to ARM chipsets

#140

Post by int_19h »

angryteabag wrote: post #137
scholia wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft is in mobile: it already has dozens of apps on both iOS and Android. It really doesn't care whose phone you use, it just wants you to use its apps to access your data on Azure. If your data is in OneDrive, you can access it using anything that has a browser, including a Chromebook.

I think they need to focus more on encouraging developers to get into making Apps for their platform. In my opinion, we don't need another platform to learn - you can see how many people agree with me when you look at how prevalent web > native technologies are right now. PhoneGap, ReactNative, NativeScript. If Microsoft decided to focus on Edge, not as a token "we still make browsers" gesture, but with a genuine int…

> Imagine if their app store was a place where you could publish a progressive web app (along side their current apps). How low would the barrier of entry be then?

Win10 (UWP) apps can be written entirely in HTML5/JS:

https://msdn.microsoft.com/windows/uwp/get-started/create-a-...

Insofar as the HTML and JS standards specify APIs, it uses them - e.g. you get IndexedDB, websockets, canvas, WebGL etc. For OS-specific things that aren't covered by the standards, you invoke WinRT APIs directly, but they're exposed as JS objects (and in a way that maps naturally to idiomatic JS - e.g. callbacks for async).

All this has been there since Win8. What more, Microsoft is also investing into PhoneGap, e.g. by adding direct support for it in its tooling:

https://www.visualstudio.com/vs/cordova/

so as to encourage people developing HTML-based apps for other platforms, which would, coincidentally, then be easier to port to UWP.

So if you're right, then this is already actively being pursued. But so far it doesn't seem to be having a big effect.

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