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Google says it will run entirely on renewable energy in 2017

nytimes.com

141–150 of 273 posts

Re: Google says it will run entirely on renewable energy in 2017

#141

Is anyone discussing _reliability_? as in Google/Apple/etc are making this move not just "to be green" but to ensure that they do have power without being subjected to the whims & issues of providers when they're just one of many customers? When you have literally hundreds of millions (billions?) of customers, you want to ensure your own resources are absolutely reliable (within your, not someone else's, requirements…

You do realize in the event of a grid failure your solar panels don't work? You can either be grid tied or off grid.

Re: Google says it will run entirely on renewable energy in 2017

#142
post #133

This story is clearly political.

My thoughts exactly :) It's not like "politics" has the same impact that the latest season of Game of Thrones has, or the latest Futball results. Law and government define how businesses can operate, and public sentiment for or against a cause can make a company look good or bad and thus garner regulatory scrutiny or passivity.

Re: Google says it will run entirely on renewable energy in 2017

#143
post #84
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it? Intel has been purchasing large quantities of green energy for years. In the last few year it has been 100% of the their overall consumption [1]. Is there any difference in what the two companies are trying to achieve? [1] https://www.epa.gov/greenpower/green-power-partnership-natio...

Biomass is considered "green energy"? Why?! Also that chart is US-only, while the story about Google here is that Google will go 100% renewable energy globally .

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Re: Google says it will run entirely on renewable energy in 2017

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may good for shareholders in a more nefarious way (PR).

Every time I see this "doing anything green is bad for shareholders" meme, it involves an assumption that PR is worthless. If that's not what Google's leaders think, than the complainers should buy a different stock. Free market and all that.

If someone believes PR (advertising) is worthless, and also owns Google stock, they've get much bigger issues...

Re: Google says it will run entirely on renewable energy in 2017

#145
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The grid itself. So in the end it pretty much means that they're actually running on renewables. If everyone does what Google does, the utilities could just stop producing fossil fuel electricity entirely and the world would actually consume zero electricity from fossil fuel. You don't have to be a monk to master mindfulness and meditation.

Thanks. Does this mean that Google is essentially subsidizing the cost of producing renewable energy, and if so, does that then mean that the consumers of the renewable energy end up paying less because of said subsidy? I'm just trying to follow where that money is actually going and how it's actually shifting overall usage from fossil fuels to renewable.

Renewable project developers want long term power purchase agreements (PPAs) so they have predictable revenue for projects they plan to develop. These are agreements that go something like "for the next 15 years, we agree to buy up to X megawatt hours per year from your project for Y dollars per megawatt hour." There are other ways to sell output from renewables (like bidding output directly into the electricity spot market) but developers overwhelmingly prefer PPAs. Google has signed a bunch of PPAs: https://cleantechnica.com/2016/01/29/google-signs-225-mw-win...

Once the developer has signed PPAs they can finance the up-front construction cost. PPAs enable the construction and operation of new renewable energy projects. Of course the output of large scale renewable facilities is mixed with other sources of electricity in a transmission system; it doesn't directly replace coal. (But this is true of any electricity project in a competitive market: when a company builds a new natural gas plant, they don't detach the transmission wires from a competitor's older coal plant and attach them to the new gas turbine.)

Instead it's pricing effects that indirectly decrease use of dirtier fossils when a grid adds renewable capacity. Solar and wind plants have very low variable costs; they'll supply every MWh they can to the grid, and get paid for every one of them via the previously signed PPAs. But fossil generators have significant variable costs for fuel and for labor[1], so when renewables are producing high output there may not be enough demand to cover the marginal costs of production. Fossil plants reduce or stop production when that happens, so they burn less fuel and produce less emissions. Fossil plants with high enough marginal costs may shut down for extended periods, like some plants that are only used for e.g. meeting peak demand during the winter heating season. Costs rise over time as aging equipment needs additional maintenance or full replacement. Fossil plants with high enough costs eventually can't turn a profit even serving the peak-demand-season niche and are completely retired and scrapped. Even if an old coal plant is replaced by a new coal plant, it's still an environmental win to get the old ones shut down, because (even under the new president) a coal plant that starts construction in 2017 won't get the weaker grandfathered pollution standards of one constructed in 1957, and the newer plant will produce more electricity per ton of fuel due to technical advances.

[1] At least coal plants have significant labor costs. Modern CCGT natural gas plants are quite labor-thrifty too.

Re: Google says it will run entirely on renewable energy in 2017

#146

> Next year, it said, all of that energy will come from wind farms and solar panels. When I read 'Renewable' on the title, I thought they would use hydroelectric energy too. Nice to know I was wrong.

They might be using some form of pumped hydro -- it's a common storage technique for wind and solar farms.

Re: Google says it will run entirely on renewable energy in 2017

#147
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google is definitely leading the industry here. It's fantastic that Google plans to switch to renewables since they are one of the biggest players. Definitely an exaggeration to say that they are leading the charge. Apple was among the first to make renewables an issue and achieved 100% in data centers back in 2013, with little fanfare. http://www.datacenterdynamics.com/content-tracks/design-buil... And creating a…

Just to be clear, 7% of Apple's global power is still dirty and they have not made any public commitment to bring that down any further. Google is a much much larger energy consumer, has been carbon neutral since 2007, and is going to use 100% renewables globally within the next year. Also, Google made its energy company play back in 2010. Apple made theirs in 2016.

Apple has pressured Foxconn to build out renewable capacity for certain steps of iPhone manufacturing by 2018. There is a lot of work to be done in manufacturing (much harder problem) but they have definitely made a public commitment to reduce the impact:

https://www.apple.com/pr/library/2015/10/22Apple-Launches-Ne...

Re: Google says it will run entirely on renewable energy in 2017

#148

This is pretty awesome, Google is definitely leading the industry here. One of the more interesting things I learned while working for Google was the intricate way in which the "grid" is managed by a separate but co-operating set of entities. Google disrupted that happy bunch by creating a wholly owned subsidiary that was a licensed power company[1]. That gave it standing to buy from and sell energy to the grid and i…

Kind of buried in the article... but Google is claiming the net of their investments in renewable energy will offset their usage of fossil fuels.

That's different than switching to a new energy source.

Re: Google says it will run entirely on renewable energy in 2017

#149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google doesn't own these wind farms etc. Of course not. That'd be a pain in the ass. That's why they sign PPAs (power purchase agreements) that entitle them to the power from those generators (usually on 20-25 year contract terms). Think reserved instances at AWS. You're paying to commit to a resource usage. What does AWS do with that money? Buy hardware and provide the service to you. You simply make a payment. >…

I disagree with you, as do the facts. Show me what they can put on a balance sheet in the end.

There is value to signing a long term PPA that guarantees a set price of electricity for 10-20 years. For example, if Google powers a data center using wind power PPAs, they know exactly how much the electricity for the data center will cost over the life of those PPAs. If they power the data center with natural gas and coal-generated electricity bought through normal electricity markets, their electricity prices will change if the price of natural gas or coal change. Having more certainty into future operational costs is valuable because it allows you to make better informed decisions/investments. Plus, many wind power PPAs are being sold for less than the wholesale cost of electricity now, so they save that way too (recent PPAs signed in Texas are a great example).
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