Live data from Hacker News

Google says it will run entirely on renewable energy in 2017

nytimes.com

111–120 of 273 posts

Re: Google says it will run entirely on renewable energy in 2017

#111

>"It’s good for the economy, good for business and good for our shareholders ". Let's be honest...it is not good for their shareholders. They are buying power at a significant premium and costing their shareholders money. It is a direct hit to the bottom line. This might be good for the environment - at the very least they are helping renewable energy companies get bank financing through purchase guarantees, which wi…

Unsubsidized wind power is driving nuclear power and coal out of business. Unsubsidized! Solar is still a bit more expensive, but will continue to decline in price each year. Investing in solar on your roof, in most markets, in a better investment than the S&P500 (EDIT: Utility solar has costs approaching 2 cents/kwh and still declining). Google is doing their shareholders a service by hedging their energy costs, no…

Google doesn't own these wind farms etc. They aren't investing in anything, and their shareholders aren't getting anything in return. They are paying a premium and hoping that the companies use the Google-provided profits/financing flexibility to advance the technology to the point where it will hopefully one day become economically viable. That day of course is not today, which is why I take issue with some of the statements in this article.

Ultimately, Google is doing a service for the world if in fact these companies use Google's support as intended. There are probably more effective, direct routes for a company of Google's size though - they could easily just roll out their own renewable energy research division, and then shareholders would own the resulting technologies. The approach that they are using doesn't seem logical to me, and then trying to spin it as if they are doing shareholders a favor by overpaying for power seems like they are making a bad mistake even worse.

Re: Google says it will run entirely on renewable energy in 2017

#112
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to be clear, 7% of Apple's global power is still dirty and they have not made any public commitment to bring that down any further. Google is a much much larger energy consumer, has been carbon neutral since 2007, and is going to use 100% renewables globally within the next year. Also, Google made its energy company play back in 2010. Apple made theirs in 2016.

100% renewables for their data centers . In the same way that Apple's total power is still partly dirty I'd think some of their offices won't be running entirely off the grid.

Apple is making great strides towards getting their offices off the grid as well. Their new campus has a considerable amount of solar deployed on-site plus they're partnering with other companies to provide power from off-site.

http://qz.com/342240/apple-is-building-a-massive-farm-of-sol...

Re: Google says it will run entirely on renewable energy in 2017

#113
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google is definitely leading the industry here. It's fantastic that Google plans to switch to renewables since they are one of the biggest players. Definitely an exaggeration to say that they are leading the charge. Apple was among the first to make renewables an issue and achieved 100% in data centers back in 2013, with little fanfare. http://www.datacenterdynamics.com/content-tracks/design-buil... And creating a…

Just to be clear, 7% of Apple's global power is still dirty and they have not made any public commitment to bring that down any further. Google is a much much larger energy consumer, has been carbon neutral since 2007, and is going to use 100% renewables globally within the next year. Also, Google made its energy company play back in 2010. Apple made theirs in 2016.

Without more detail this isn't useful information.

For example, Apple's global power consumption definitely includes power used in manufacturing, a problem that Google externalizes from this sort of computation.

Re: Google says it will run entirely on renewable energy in 2017

#114

This is pretty awesome, Google is definitely leading the industry here. One of the more interesting things I learned while working for Google was the intricate way in which the "grid" is managed by a separate but co-operating set of entities. Google disrupted that happy bunch by creating a wholly owned subsidiary that was a licensed power company[1]. That gave it standing to buy from and sell energy to the grid and i…

> Google is definitely leading the industry here. It's fantastic that Google plans to switch to renewables since they are one of the biggest players. Definitely an exaggeration to say that they are leading the charge. Apple was among the first to make renewables an issue and achieved 100% in data centers back in 2013, with little fanfare. http://www.datacenterdynamics.com/content-tracks/design-buil... And creating a…

In Europe Apple are considered far from 'green' due to the problem of the power adaptors.

Every other phone or tablet sold in the E.U. has a sensible power adaptor, usually the mini USB flavour. Apple though, they don't think the law applies to them, or at least not the spirit of the law, so they keep churning out these Apple only power adaptors complete with the cables that fray and break a lot easier than normal cables.

Sure the data centres may be green but the landfill is not. Meanwhile, Google (who have far larger and more useful data centres) have been providing E.U. compliant power adaptors (or lack of) since the first Nexus phones, if not a long time before.

Re: Google says it will run entirely on renewable energy in 2017

#115

This is pretty awesome, Google is definitely leading the industry here. One of the more interesting things I learned while working for Google was the intricate way in which the "grid" is managed by a separate but co-operating set of entities. Google disrupted that happy bunch by creating a wholly owned subsidiary that was a licensed power company[1]. That gave it standing to buy from and sell energy to the grid and i…

> Google is definitely leading the industry here. It's fantastic that Google plans to switch to renewables since they are one of the biggest players. Definitely an exaggeration to say that they are leading the charge. Apple was among the first to make renewables an issue and achieved 100% in data centers back in 2013, with little fanfare. http://www.datacenterdynamics.com/content-tracks/design-buil... And creating a…

Those were toy datacenters. Your first article does mention the first real one that Apple built in NC and its non-renewable energy sources (Apple had to start buying carbon offsets). That said, I can attest to Duke being a joke, including their DukeNet communications subsidiary, now belonging to TWC.

Re: Google says it will run entirely on renewable energy in 2017

#117
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hardware for green energy production included, like solar panels... Since they don't last for ever and need lots of energy to be produced, I wonder how long it takes to just get even.

It varies considerably with the installation location. Modern panels in decent locations are under 4 years. http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy04osti/35489.pdf

California in general is a fantastic location for solar. Only places like Nevada and Hawaii are better.

Re: Google says it will run entirely on renewable energy in 2017

#118
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google is definitely leading the industry here. It's fantastic that Google plans to switch to renewables since they are one of the biggest players. Definitely an exaggeration to say that they are leading the charge. Apple was among the first to make renewables an issue and achieved 100% in data centers back in 2013, with little fanfare. http://www.datacenterdynamics.com/content-tracks/design-buil... And creating a…

Just to be clear, 7% of Apple's global power is still dirty and they have not made any public commitment to bring that down any further. Google is a much much larger energy consumer, has been carbon neutral since 2007, and is going to use 100% renewables globally within the next year. Also, Google made its energy company play back in 2010. Apple made theirs in 2016.

> Google is a much much larger energy consumer

That seems implausible. The electrical requirements of Aluminum production are extreme. Obviously there's a lot of issues about where one draws the line between the company and its subcontractors and so on, but it seems hard to believe Apple's global energy footprint is not higher than Google's

Re: Google says it will run entirely on renewable energy in 2017

#119
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to be clear, 7% of Apple's global power is still dirty and they have not made any public commitment to bring that down any further. Google is a much much larger energy consumer, has been carbon neutral since 2007, and is going to use 100% renewables globally within the next year. Also, Google made its energy company play back in 2010. Apple made theirs in 2016.

100% renewables for their data centers . In the same way that Apple's total power is still partly dirty I'd think some of their offices won't be running entirely off the grid.

It isn't just data centers, they're going to hit 100% renewables for global operations.

From Google's 2016 energy report: "And in 2017 Google will reach 100% renewable energy for our global operations..."

Re: Google says it will run entirely on renewable energy in 2017

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unsubsidized wind power is driving nuclear power and coal out of business. Unsubsidized! Solar is still a bit more expensive, but will continue to decline in price each year. Investing in solar on your roof, in most markets, in a better investment than the S&P500 (EDIT: Utility solar has costs approaching 2 cents/kwh and still declining). Google is doing their shareholders a service by hedging their energy costs, no…

Google doesn't own these wind farms etc. They aren't investing in anything, and their shareholders aren't getting anything in return. They are paying a premium and hoping that the companies use the Google-provided profits/financing flexibility to advance the technology to the point where it will hopefully one day become economically viable. That day of course is not today, which is why I take issue with some of the s…

> Google doesn't own these wind farms etc.

Of course not. That'd be a pain in the ass. That's why they sign PPAs (power purchase agreements) that entitle them to the power from those generators (usually on 20-25 year contract terms). Think reserved instances at AWS. You're paying to commit to a resource usage. What does AWS do with that money? Buy hardware and provide the service to you. You simply make a payment.

> They aren't investing in anything, and their shareholders aren't getting anything in return.

I disagree with you, as do the facts.

Post reply on HN