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No Spanking, No Time-Out, No Problems

theatlantic.com

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Re: No Spanking, No Time-Out, No Problems

#351

Post by DanBC »

bsder wrote: post #118

"No negative reinforcement" is what gives us kids that run screaming around in restaurants and stores. Sorry, I disagree with an absolute ban. As a parent, I think that there is something far more important than positive or negative reinforcement. In my opinion, the fact that the child should believe at a very deep level that you are far more stubborn than they are is the single most important thing. Without that, th…

>"No negative reinforcement" is what gives us kids that run screaming around in restaurants and stores. Sorry, I disagree with an absolute ban.

The whole point of the article is that those children lack positive reinforcement, and that if the parents were paying attention to the children when the children were good the children wouldn't end up screaming in a restaurant.

Re: No Spanking, No Time-Out, No Problems

#352

Post by kabouseng »

marklgr wrote: post #288
marcell wrote: post #62

Quoting the article: > "Sarah, put on the green coat or the red sweater. We're going to go out, okay?" Choice among humans increases the likelihood of compliance. And choice isn't important, it's the appearance of choice that's important. I've gotten this exact advice from so many articles and pop psych pieces. Maybe they are written by non-parents or their children are much easier, but it never works for me. My 4 ye…

> Maybe they are written by non-parents or their children are much easier To be frank, the article tips are pretty sound and well-accepted, including from specialists who deal with much more difficult children then you and me on a daily basis. First point, there's a tendency to see one's kids as special, be it especially gifted, or difficult, or an astonishing critical thinker for their age. It's quite understandable…

Please humor me, and an honest question. And please be honest. Do you have kids? How many?

Re: No Spanking, No Time-Out, No Problems

#353

Post by saint_fiasco »

tomp wrote: post #329
snowwrestler wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If punishment changes behavior, why does anyone get more than one speeding ticket? Why does recidivism exist at all? Punishment primarily changes the visibility of behavior. Kids who get punished by their parents a lot learn to avoid their parents and hide their feelings and behaviors. To the parent it can look like the punishment worked.

If you were trown in jail, brutally raped and had 50% of your income confiscated for the rest of your life as a punishment, trust me, pretty much nobody would be speeding. For most people, the (cost of punishment * chance of being caught) is less than reward of whatever they're doing.

Then increase the reward. It's not a coincidence that most criminals are poor people. They have less to lose.

Re: No Spanking, No Time-Out, No Problems

#354

Post by nf05papsjfVbc »

efaref wrote: post #343
bluejekyll wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was something else going on. Physical violence is not a cure for any known disease. I have two kids, and as angry as they can make me, I always find that calming the situation down is way better than escalating it.

> Physical violence is not a cure for any known disease. Setting bones? Fixing dislocated shoulders?

These are activities meant to do something else but the pain is a side-effect. These are actions of treatment. It's a stretch to call it 'violence'. "Force" is a word which comes to mind instead.

Re: No Spanking, No Time-Out, No Problems

#355

Post by shoover »

agentgt wrote: post #346

We are about 3-4 days (due the 7th) away from having our first child and this article is a terrifying reminder of what is to come. I have a rather good temperament and equanimity (ironic given the above) but my wife despite being brilliant sadly does not (in all other things she is superior to me). Luckily we have a very good behavioral therapist and or already familiar with the psychology of punishment/reward. That…

Respect the responsibility but don't fear the outcome. These things don't happen overnight. No matter your kid's temperament or how you do as parents, it all develops one day at a time over a very long time and you have essentially infinite opportunities to learn and adjust.

Congrats and enjoy :)

Re: No Spanking, No Time-Out, No Problems

#356

Post by 3131s »

novaleaf wrote: post #342
LyndsySimon wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wonder how many machete wielding 8 year olds grow up to be competitive in university. I'm guessing more than you would think, because this isn't that dissimilar to rural kids in the US.

To the parent poster's credit, I think there there might be something to it, the kid is busy learning, and perhaps if he/she is spending all day learning social/environmental survival skills instead of learning academics, they are going to be less equipped to handle a 15 year carer of school. than the "western" kid.

All these kids go to school too (though here it's still only 4 hours a day, which I am envious of) and from tutoring a number of them in English I can attest to the fact that the kids in my neighborhood are very 'book smart' too. It might surprise people not from here, but nowadays everybody in Phnom Penh has tablets and smart phones and they spend a lot of time on those learning. Intellectually they're more than capable enough to succeed in higher academics, but financial difficulties may limit some of them.

Re: No Spanking, No Time-Out, No Problems

#357

Post by lintiness »

kabouseng wrote: post #352
marklgr wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe they are written by non-parents or their children are much easier To be frank, the article tips are pretty sound and well-accepted, including from specialists who deal with much more difficult children then you and me on a daily basis. First point, there's a tendency to see one's kids as special, be it especially gifted, or difficult, or an astonishing critical thinker for their age. It's quite understandable…

Please humor me, and an honest question. And please be honest. Do you have kids? How many?

my dad has lots of advice for me and my wife about the correct parenting of our kids (his grandkids). he usually gives it to us over the hour dinner we eat with him once a week.

Re: No Spanking, No Time-Out, No Problems

#359

Post by lintiness »

maxxxxx wrote: post #114
coldtea wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you have that kind of money you have 10 babysitters, nannies, assistants, cooks, cleaners, drivers etc. And you can get a day off almost whenever you want too.

I love it when they show on TV how brave some superstar is who manages to raise children while having a busy career. They never show the nannies, cooks and cleaning personnel.

how about when said brave superstar LEANS IN and delivers a lecture to the planet via book (sheryl sandberg)?

Re: No Spanking, No Time-Out, No Problems

#360

Post by crummy »

im3w1l wrote: post #290
tent wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the idea isn't so much that punishment doesn't get results, but rather that those results come with side effects. Usually, this is some harboured anger, or avoidance of the parent. Yes, punishment gets changes behavior, but it's not always a 100% positive change. It should have been phrased better in the article.

You're projecting your own reasonable beliefs onto the article. It really was as stupid as SiVal said. It follows the rules of political correctness: Any evidence supporting a taboo idea must the denied. Any advantages of a taboo practice must be denied.

I think the article is talking about this here:

"You don't try to suppress— “Don't give me attitude for all I've done for you!” What research shows is that it will lead to escape behavior on the part of the child. It will lead them to avoid you as soon as they get home from school and it will model negative interactions toward you."

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